Quote:
Originally Posted by DeutscheQuality
About when the destroyer make contact and the sea state, it was an calm sea, basically no wind. And he detected me on the surface. Trying to resume the approach: I detected him by the radar, full ahead, plot his course (i use the map contact on) and with caution, choose the place to attack him at PD at a distance of 1.800 meters. I don't know really how to explain this, but when he detected me on the surface (at the 9 kilometers) i was something like 1 minute to dive to periscope depth.
Most of my attacks are like this: Found a target, plot his course, full ahead and by the radar, continue to tracking him untill i am a good distance ahead of him, so i can simply get near his presumed course and wait the moment i can finally see him through the periscope and get all the data for the torpedos, and launch them. Don't know if is a good method, but that's what i do (for now), and im ready to improve if this is an bad method
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Okay, that explains a lot. You were spotted on the surface prior to diving, which means the AI was in "alert" mode, knew there was definitely a submarine , and knew where to look. Also, your boat is noisy when it is diving, so if nearby it makes you easy to detect. AI is smart enough (well if set to vet or elite, and all TMO escorts are set to vet or elite btw. Mostly veteran. Set below veteran, they are outright incompetent most of the time.) to know a submarine can only travel so far. In summary, they had a visual fix on you when you submerged, heard your boat submerge, in calm seas, was fairly easy to find your boat.
In future, should keep 8-10 nautical miles or 14-18 KM (in daylight) from enemy vessels, dive ahead and approach. Sometimes can get away with less distance, depending on light fog etc but at 9 km, you were too close and were thus spotted.
Evasion tips:
TMO AI has a reputation, and while it is certainly (by design) tougher to provide a challenge, more realism, and excitement to the sim (lets face it, attacking, being detected by enemy without being attacked can be quite anticlimactic) , it is not unbeatable, or impossible. Actually, I find it somewhat easy most of the time. Key to survival is patience, which was key for real sub skippers and crews. Many players get impatient, because the AI is persistent. Remember, evading enemy escorts is a marathon, not a race.
1. Make sure silent running is engaged. The way to sim does silent running, is when this is activated, you run on "hidden" electric engines, a silent drive, which emits less noise than the "regular" electric engines. Your boat also emits less noise, representing the shut down of certain noisy equipment.
2. Run at 100 rpm or less, 1/3 speed on silent running is 2 knots on most submarines. Running at 1 knot is not advised as it basically makes your sub immobile and easy to locate. Exception is if low on battery power and need to conserve precious "juice". Should also be noted than when your electric motors/prop shafts are damaged, your boat makes more noise, even on silent running. The "ghost" engines mentioned, which your boat uses in silent running can take damage, which makes boat not as quiet.
3. Change depth, speed, and course often. This confuses the AI as to your exact location.
One method I use, which I read about in the book "silent running" by Adm Calvert (excellent book) is the "Dykers Method" (named after USS JACK's CO, Thomas Dykers). Always keep 5-10 degrees starboard or port rudder on, so the sub is always in a slow turn, never heading on a straight course. Alternate port and starboard after each depth charge run by the escort.
When escort is roaring overhead about to drop, go ahead full or flank (I use full because gets enough speed but over time does not drain as much battery power) for sixty seconds or so. Then all stop and let the subs momentum carry the sub along for about 45 seconds. hen go back to 1/3 speed. Repeat this process along with the gradual turns, alternating.
For Depth. A lot of people think going right to max depth is the goal and that is not necessarily so in TMO. Salmon class test depth is 250, you can safely go to 300-350 feet no problem. Typically when in a silent running, rigged for depth charge situation, I go to 250 first and level out. Then ease down to 300, then 325, 350 and try to keep it between 350 and 375 feet. This gradual descent, combined with the various course and speed changes confuses the AI over time. I rarely have to go below 375 feet in a Salmon/Sargo. Funny how it works is can be at 380 feet cant shake escorts, ease down to 390 to push things, and they eventually lose contact. Its the way various things are modeled and how they are modeled is complicated in various factors....sea state, location on earth (sonar conditions vary. Generally at or below equator conditions improve for the enemy, further north of equator conditions are typically not as favorable, enemy skill level, type of sonar gear (later war sets are obviously better than early war) etc.
Reason to avoid extreme depths, esp in older boats, is the older boats cant handle the pressure at such depths if take any hull damage from depth charges. A Salmon at 450 feet takes some hull damage, has a higher probability of hull failure than say a Gato or Balao at 450, because the hulls are not as strong, their max depth tolerances are different. Even in a Gato, I try not to exceed 400 feet. Balao, 500 feet is pretty standard, as it was in real life.
I am guessing here, but I assume how you lost your boat was some charges landed close, you were at 150 meters, your hull took damage and then went to 100?
I did a pretty extensive revamp of the damage model and depth charges in the TMO Update for more realism. The magic "killing blows" i.e. the one depth charge explodes, not that close but its random chance gives it the full hit points of 250 or so (when subs max hit points are usually 325-350) , causing a hull collapse. In real life, most subs were not lost like this, as it is very difficult to get depth charges close enough for that "killing blow", they were lost due to damage accumulated, knocking out key systems combined with flooding etc. In the update, subs are lost due to damage key systems being disabled and flooding typically. One thing though, is if are at extreme depth for that class of boat and a DC damages the hull, even a little, can lead to hull collapse. The game does seem to model the effects of depth charges differently at different depths. A charge at 600 feet certainly seems to have more effect than one at 100 feet.
I have made further refinements to the damage model in the next version of the TMO Update.
4.Note when you hear reports of a thermal layer. While this does not completely nerf the AI, it definitely diminishes their sonar returns, so listen for reports of thermal layers and try to level off a few feet below. So Thermal layer at 200 feet, try to level off at 205-210 feet for a few minutes, then go deeper.
5.Depth Charge Disturbance Mod. Below is a link to the modified version of The DarkWraiths depth charge disturbance mod. This mod adds in (something UBI left out) the noise/water disturbances caused by underwater explosions of depth charges, which makes it so for short time enemy escorts cant hear your sub. Now, I had to make them have less duration than in real life because in the sim, one or two big patterns just nerfed their sound gear and made it very easy for player to escape since they would lose contact.
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/dow...o=file&id=6064