SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - View Single Post

Gorshkov · 07-18-10, 06:00 AM

OK! As I researched this area now Russian Navy has the following surface warships carrying torpedo tubes and ASROCs:

- 1124M/ME Grisha-III/V: 2xII DTA-53 TT
- 1241.2/PE Pauk: 4xI OTA-40/2xII DTA-53 TT
- 1331M Parchim: 2xII DTA-53 TT
- 1135 Krivak-I/II: 2xIV ChTA-53 TT, 4xURPK-4 Metel ASROC
- 1154 Neustrashimy: 6xRPK-6 Vodopad-NK ASROC
- 1155 Udaloy-I: 2xIV ChTA-53 TT, 8xURK-5 Rastrub-B ASROC
- 1155M Udaloy-II: 2xIV ChTA-53 TT, 8xRPK-6 Vodopad-NK
- 956 Sovremenny: 2xII DTA-53 TT
- 1164 Slava: 2xV PTA-53 TT
- 1144 Kirov: 2xV PTA-53 TT, 8xRPK-6 Vodopad-NK ASROC

Taken all above into consideration it seems now Russian surface ASW vessels are mainly equipped with:

- SET-65 and SET-40M/SET-72 ASW torpedoes fired from on-board torpedo tubes

- UMGT-1 and AT-2 torpedoes carried by Russian ASROCs

Performance of these torps is now meaningless:

- SET-40M - 29 kts/8 km, homing range 600 m
- SET-72 - 30 kts/13 km, homing range 800 m
- SET-65 - 35 kt/15 km, homing range 800 m
- AT-2 - 40 kt/8km, homing range 1000 m
- UMGT-1 - 41 kts/8 km, homing range 1200 m

All in all Russian and former Soviet client states navies surface vessels ASW potential is now ridiculous.

As for today's torpedo armament of Russian submarines:

- 53-65 wake-homer - in real life this is a kamikaze weapon.
- TEST-71 - well, simply a bit modified SET-65 with primitive wire guidance. Seeker range is 800-1000 m. It was rumored all Russian TEST-71s would be scrapped in 2010.
- USET-80 - at the beginning horribly unreliable the last Russian electric HWT, very noisy. Performance: 48 kt/18 km, seeker range 1500 m.
- UGST - simply Russian equivalent of early Mk-48 created 30 years after its archer. Most probably its performance is 50 kt/20 km and 40 kt/35 km, seeker range 2000 m. Well, Chinese also catch-up Russkies here having similar Yu-6 fish.

All of these fishes except UGST are badly outdated and the latter also is far behind latest American ADCAP models.

Additional notes about Russian torpedoes:

- SET-53, MGT-1 and SAET-60 torpedoes homing system is simply a copy of German "Zaukoenig" torpedo homing system developed by German scientists jailed in the USSR after the war . The SAET-60M was withdrawn from service in 1990s!

- TEST-68 is a SET-53M with wire, TEST-71 is a SET-65 with wire, VTT-1 is an AT-1 with wire

- MPT-1 is another name of "Colibri" torpedo being Russian copy of US Mk-46 Mod. 0 LWT. It was planned to use MPT-1 as a part of Medvedka ASROC but this project was abandoned. Later MPT-1 was introduced into MTPK mine-torpedo ASW system.

- Russian wake-homers (especially 53-65 torpedoes still broadly used in Russia) are very overrated weapons in practical terms! The principal problem of wake detection homing system is close proximity of launching site to a target due to significant losses in distance (torpedo is knowingly launched "behind the target" and then follows it) and in pursuit speed (torpedo moves not in a straight line but "sinusoidally"). As a matter of fact, far back in 1960s launch sites of Soviet 53-cm torpedoes were within engagement zone of ASROC system in favorable hydrological conditions. Soviet sub could get ASROC's "knockout" prior to launch her torpedo. Contrary to popular belief, there are effective techniques to oppose a wake-responsive torpedo. The US Navy is quite aware of those methods and do practice them.

- latest variant of USET-80 torpedo called USET-80K (IOC 1989) has "Keramika" ("Ceramics") homing system used in "Colibri" design and being essentially a Soviet copy of Mk-46 Mod.0 guidance unit from late 1960s but still better than brand-new domestic Soviet designs! Basic USET-80 (IOC 1980) had "Vodopad" homing system also found in UMGT-1 LWT. Yet test firings of USET-80 turned out to be almost complete failure. Intercepting of submerged targets was impossible due to long reaction time of its control system processing not rapidly enough data from torpedo's sonar suite. In short, USET-80 state trials on the Black Sea were a cheat. Moreover USET-80 is very expensive weapon with limited service time but is still bought by Russian Navy in very small quantities.

- Soviet active/passive homing systems are very prone to more complicated sea conditions and enemy countermeasures. In practical terms that means their combat effectiveness would be very low.

- UGST project has almost 30 years long history. There were three torpedo types developed under this codename: Tapir (peroxide), Magot (oxygen) and Fizik (mono-propellant Otto II). Now it seems that present Russian USGT is an early Mk-48 model equivalent (not ADCAP). Possibly Soviet intelligence acquired Mk-48 technology in the late 1970s to early 1980s period.

PS. LA Imp top speed is 36-37 knots!

07-18-10, 06:00 AM	#50
Gorshkov Commodore Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 604 Downloads: 139 Uploads: 0	OK! As I researched this area now Russian Navy has the following surface warships carrying torpedo tubes and ASROCs: - 1124M/ME Grisha-III/V: 2xII DTA-53 TT - 1241.2/PE Pauk: 4xI OTA-40/2xII DTA-53 TT - 1331M Parchim: 2xII DTA-53 TT - 1135 Krivak-I/II: 2xIV ChTA-53 TT, 4xURPK-4 Metel ASROC - 1154 Neustrashimy: 6xRPK-6 Vodopad-NK ASROC - 1155 Udaloy-I: 2xIV ChTA-53 TT, 8xURK-5 Rastrub-B ASROC - 1155M Udaloy-II: 2xIV ChTA-53 TT, 8xRPK-6 Vodopad-NK - 956 Sovremenny: 2xII DTA-53 TT - 1164 Slava: 2xV PTA-53 TT - 1144 Kirov: 2xV PTA-53 TT, 8xRPK-6 Vodopad-NK ASROC Taken all above into consideration it seems now Russian surface ASW vessels are mainly equipped with: - SET-65 and SET-40M/SET-72 ASW torpedoes fired from on-board torpedo tubes - UMGT-1 and AT-2 torpedoes carried by Russian ASROCs Performance of these torps is now meaningless: - SET-40M - 29 kts/8 km, homing range 600 m - SET-72 - 30 kts/13 km, homing range 800 m - SET-65 - 35 kt/15 km, homing range 800 m - AT-2 - 40 kt/8km, homing range 1000 m - UMGT-1 - 41 kts/8 km, homing range 1200 m All in all Russian and former Soviet client states navies surface vessels ASW potential is now ridiculous. As for today's torpedo armament of Russian submarines: - 53-65 wake-homer - in real life this is a kamikaze weapon. - TEST-71 - well, simply a bit modified SET-65 with primitive wire guidance. Seeker range is 800-1000 m. It was rumored all Russian TEST-71s would be scrapped in 2010. - USET-80 - at the beginning horribly unreliable the last Russian electric HWT, very noisy. Performance: 48 kt/18 km, seeker range 1500 m. - UGST - simply Russian equivalent of early Mk-48 created 30 years after its archer. Most probably its performance is 50 kt/20 km and 40 kt/35 km, seeker range 2000 m. Well, Chinese also catch-up Russkies here having similar Yu-6 fish. All of these fishes except UGST are badly outdated and the latter also is far behind latest American ADCAP models. Additional notes about Russian torpedoes: - SET-53, MGT-1 and SAET-60 torpedoes homing system is simply a copy of German "Zaukoenig" torpedo homing system developed by German scientists jailed in the USSR after the war . The SAET-60M was withdrawn from service in 1990s! - TEST-68 is a SET-53M with wire, TEST-71 is a SET-65 with wire, VTT-1 is an AT-1 with wire - MPT-1 is another name of "Colibri" torpedo being Russian copy of US Mk-46 Mod. 0 LWT. It was planned to use MPT-1 as a part of Medvedka ASROC but this project was abandoned. Later MPT-1 was introduced into MTPK mine-torpedo ASW system. - Russian wake-homers (especially 53-65 torpedoes still broadly used in Russia) are very overrated weapons in practical terms! The principal problem of wake detection homing system is close proximity of launching site to a target due to significant losses in distance (torpedo is knowingly launched "behind the target" and then follows it) and in pursuit speed (torpedo moves not in a straight line but "sinusoidally"). As a matter of fact, far back in 1960s launch sites of Soviet 53-cm torpedoes were within engagement zone of ASROC system in favorable hydrological conditions. Soviet sub could get ASROC's "knockout" prior to launch her torpedo. Contrary to popular belief, there are effective techniques to oppose a wake-responsive torpedo. The US Navy is quite aware of those methods and do practice them. - latest variant of USET-80 torpedo called USET-80K (IOC 1989) has "Keramika" ("Ceramics") homing system used in "Colibri" design and being essentially a Soviet copy of Mk-46 Mod.0 guidance unit from late 1960s but still better than brand-new domestic Soviet designs! Basic USET-80 (IOC 1980) had "Vodopad" homing system also found in UMGT-1 LWT. Yet test firings of USET-80 turned out to be almost complete failure. Intercepting of submerged targets was impossible due to long reaction time of its control system processing not rapidly enough data from torpedo's sonar suite. In short, USET-80 state trials on the Black Sea were a cheat. Moreover USET-80 is very expensive weapon with limited service time but is still bought by Russian Navy in very small quantities. - Soviet active/passive homing systems are very prone to more complicated sea conditions and enemy countermeasures. In practical terms that means their combat effectiveness would be very low. - UGST project has almost 30 years long history. There were three torpedo types developed under this codename: Tapir (peroxide), Magot (oxygen) and Fizik (mono-propellant Otto II). Now it seems that present Russian USGT is an early Mk-48 model equivalent (not ADCAP). Possibly Soviet intelligence acquired Mk-48 technology in the late 1970s to early 1980s period. PS. LA Imp top speed is 36-37 knots! Last edited by Gorshkov; 07-18-10 at 12:10 PM.