[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by jcmemphis

Very interesting. So in essence, then, portions of the mod will be okay, but any changes the mods make to documents/sh4/data will not take/hold.

Mods are made to be used "whole", so when Windows rolls back and deletes (as an example) the APD_Manley.cfg file from the FotRSU mod, the ship is not "whole", and "calls" to it in the game can potentially cause a crash. Or an existing ship has other file changes in the mod that do not work with the Stock version when the cfg file is rolled back. Also, the mod does not change the documents folder - which is another "Windows Protected" folder location btw - the mod changes the game folder, and then the game itself will add to the Save folder what isn't already there. If a file exists in the Save folder, it is not replaced after changing mods, which is why the Save folder should be deleted through File Explorer or other means - not through the game though... Saves are generally not compatible between Stock or mods or mod to mod...

Originally Posted by jcmemphis

You are absolutely right about SH5; I noticed when I ran OPtionsFileEditorViewer that many of the changes didn't take. But (see earlier comment about stubborn) I kept trying and eventually the ones I wanted finally stayed in, but it was frustrating.

SH5 with TWoS (and somewhat SH3 with GWX), due to the use of an installer applet to do the mod changes. It is still best to not be in a "protected" folder.

Originally Posted by jcmemphis

I also noted your comment about root directory. I had tried moving my steam installation to a directory I made off root and it didn't work. I have read over the instructions from the post you shared and I am just not willing to go through that. I have other games installed from Steam that I don't want to remove and I am not willing to get another drive just for this. And just to be clear (asking): moving or copying the steam installtion (the one Program Files (x86)) to anywhere else outside of the steam area will not work? I mean like copy to documents/mygames/SH4/... Agree?

There was a fellow who "faked" Steam into a 2nd Steam Library Folder on his C: drive, by installing the game to a USB external drive, then found the references to the drive somewhere in the Steam files, and changed the path to a folder he had made on the C: drive. I have not been able to find that post... If you have even just a few Steam games, moving the Library folder can be a real pia bother. ALL of the Steam games would have to be moved, and that can take a LONG time, since basically, they have to download again... You might be able to copy your current Steam version of SH4 to another folder though. First, remove all mods, and copy the MODS folder somewhere outside of the game folder, for "safe-keeping" and re-use later. Then run the Steam Verify Game Files from the Steam app on your computer. It will basically re-install the game, but it will be a "clean" version when it is finished. While that is happening, navigate into your My Documents folder and find the SH4 folder there and delete it. That gets rid of the old Saves. Once Steam is finished with the "verify", log into your computer Steam app and launch SH4 and get to the game's main menu. That does the licensing stuff. Exit the game. Now navigate into the game folder ("C:\Program Files (x86) \Steam \SteamApps \common \Silent Hunter Wolves of the Pacific" or whatever its name and path). Use the <Ctrl>-<A> key combination to Select All, and then <Ctrl>-<C> to "Copy" all of those files. Now navigate to the root of the C: drive and make a new folder ("Games" as an example) and navigate into that folder. Make another folder inside that, using an appropriate name for the use, such as "TMO" for Trigger Maru Overhauled, or "FotRSU" for Fall of the Rising Sun Ultimate (easier user maintenance later), or whatever you want. Navigate into that new folder, and use <Ctrl>-<V> to Paste all of the Steam folder's SH4 files there. You now have a 2nd copy of the game on your hard drive. Before you add any mods though, consider the use of MultiSH4 v1.5 (match the game version and the MultiSH4 version) to make a separate Save folder for this copy of the game. The Save folder name change with MultiSH4 can be just about any 3-character combination, as long as you do not use "special" characters. So numbers or letters are safe to use. Make it something you will associate with your game copy, such as (again) TMO for TMO or FRS for FotRSU, or whatever you want. Now you can add a mod to your game copy. Keep the Steam folder version there for when you want to play the Stock game, and it keeps the SH4 Save folder. All modded game copies should have their own, newly named Save folder. You might want to create a desktop shortcut and point it at your new game copy, or you can also add it to your Steam list, though it will use the same name and icon as the "original", until you edit that. If you do that though, do NOT use the Steam Verify on the copies, else the whole folder will be deleted... Just remember that a modded game cannot use the same Save files as the Stock game, or any other version or copy of the game, else you invite all sorts of oddities.

Originally Posted by jcmemphis

I was thinking that maybe I would just buy a copy directly from Ubisoft and then using that for mods. I'll probably continue with the build I have unless it becomes no longer worthwhile. Once finished (or too frustrated), I will get the Ubisoft and use that for FOTRSU.

You most certainly could purchase the Ubisoft download and have it on the same computer as the Steam version. However, whichever version you install 2nd will overwrite the Windows registry and that can cause issues for the other version when its "front-end" attempts to do "updates". With the copying described above, you could have the Stock game in the Steam folder, and any number of copies of it in your "Games" folder, each in their own uniquely named folders, and each with their own uniquely named Save folder (MultiSH4), and each is segregated from the others. You cannot however, "share" the Saves between the different versions... The one "gotcha" with the Steam games is with SH3, in that the widescreen GUIs do not seem to be able to work properly with the Steam version. SH4 and 5 are fine in that regard, since they have proper 'modern' interfaces.