SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - View Single Post - [REL/WIP] US Battleflags/Conning Tower Emblems

Mad Mardigan · 05-15-21, 03:21 PM

Ahoy, all..

Did a bit of digging & came across this bit of info:

The origin of the submarine battle flag in World War II is a matter of some speculation, because before 1942, U.S. submarines did not own or display them. During late 1942 or early 1943, however, it became customary for a broom to be tied to the shears of a submarine returning from a successful patrol, indicating that it had made a "clean sweep" or sunk everything possible. In 1944, pennants were added to the brooms to indicate the number of kills. A Japanese flag denoted each ship sunk, with a solid orange circle on a white background for merchant ships and a rising sun for warships. Occasionally, these flags were also painted on the conning tower. This spontaneous and informal practice soon evolved into the creation of larger, more elaborate pennants, which included the submarine's particular insignia, often borrowed from a crewmember's "Submarine Jacket." This emblem was sewn into the pennant, along with symbols denoting additional kills and distinctive accomplishments, as sort of a "living history" of the sub's career. During 1944, Disney Studios, already involved in designing military insignia for both the United States and its allies (as these two websites show: http://www.atissuejournal.com/2010/0...gos-by-disney/ and http://www.atissuejournal.com/2010/0...gos-by-disney/ ), also designed submarine insignia. In all, the studio designed more than 30 fish insignia, which were assigned to submarines.

From the site I gleaned this info from.. 1 of the pic's, as best as I can tell.. it looks to have the battle flag & subsequent ship's sunk (battle kill's) emblazoned on the port side of the tower.

Of course, that is just 1 pic I found.. ( found here: http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/boats...idge_small.jpg ) & is not entirely indicative of that locality, as being the agreed upon area for them to be displayed with all subs. It could well be, that that area was where that particular sub's Capt. & crew chose to display theirs...

M. M.

post edit :

For those that may want to read up on that, themselves, that info, can be found here:

https://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/us%5Env~ss.html

05-15-21, 03:21 PM	#11
Mad Mardigan Admiral Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Grand Rapids, Mi. Posts: 2,327 Downloads: 491 Uploads: 0	Re: Battle flag's & kill count... Ahoy, all.. Did a bit of digging & came across this bit of info: The origin of the submarine battle flag in World War II is a matter of some speculation, because before 1942, U.S. submarines did not own or display them. During late 1942 or early 1943, however, it became customary for a broom to be tied to the shears of a submarine returning from a successful patrol, indicating that it had made a "clean sweep" or sunk everything possible. In 1944, pennants were added to the brooms to indicate the number of kills. A Japanese flag denoted each ship sunk, with a solid orange circle on a white background for merchant ships and a rising sun for warships. Occasionally, these flags were also painted on the conning tower. This spontaneous and informal practice soon evolved into the creation of larger, more elaborate pennants, which included the submarine's particular insignia, often borrowed from a crewmember's "Submarine Jacket." This emblem was sewn into the pennant, along with symbols denoting additional kills and distinctive accomplishments, as sort of a "living history" of the sub's career. During 1944, Disney Studios, already involved in designing military insignia for both the United States and its allies (as these two websites show: http://www.atissuejournal.com/2010/0...gos-by-disney/ and http://www.atissuejournal.com/2010/0...gos-by-disney/ ), also designed submarine insignia. In all, the studio designed more than 30 fish insignia, which were assigned to submarines. From the site I gleaned this info from.. 1 of the pic's, as best as I can tell.. it looks to have the battle flag & subsequent ship's sunk (battle kill's) emblazoned on the port side of the tower. Of course, that is just 1 pic I found.. ( found here: http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/boats...idge_small.jpg ) & is not entirely indicative of that locality, as being the agreed upon area for them to be displayed with all subs. It could well be, that that area was where that particular sub's Capt. & crew chose to display theirs... M. M. post edit : For those that may want to read up on that, themselves, that info, can be found here: https://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/us%5Env~ss.html __________________ Last edited by Mad Mardigan; 05-15-21 at 03:39 PM.