Quote:
Originally Posted by Revus
So, over time, I've learned more about the sim, how the real skippers operated, and learned more about things like the TDC. At first I'd use the "Dick O'Kane method" which was my way of playing while not knowing what the hell I was doing with the TDC.
After reading WAHOO and TANG patrol reports, as well as RADM O'Kanes books, I found he used a constant bearing, divergent spread attack. Here's how to do it:
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...ybrid&t=237668
Using it with my mag exploders, the spread, with about 7-9 seconds between shots, on slow speed, I've reduced my premature count to very low numbers. I could be WAY off, but I feel the separation between fish keeps them from actuating the exploders on the magnetic signature from the other fish fired (again, could be super wrong but it gives me warm and fuzzies, and helps to sink the "sunzabitches"). This method also brackets the target, fore and aft with a three to four shot spread. Even if the target zigs aggressively, you're likely to get at least one hit (as long as youre using fish from mid-'43).
As for the radar(s) and DF: BH, got a few questions (I'm completely ignorant as to modding this or any other game as you currently are, so please bear with me). Been reading SILVERSIDES and BATFISH reports lately, and both around the beginning of '44 start mentinoing the introduction of the PPI, and are also able to pick-up radar "interferrence" from what they suspect are other SJ sets, land based sets, and are able to navigate using the SJ returns from land masses. Also, both boats had a general SOP of using the SD for something like 5 seconds on, 45 seconds off, so as to not be DF'd by any lurking air cover (at a certain point, SILVERSIDES decided to not use it at all, pretty much for the remainder of the war). They also were able to use SJ to acquire aircraft.
Is there any way to incorporate these kinds of things? like an automation for SD for the "operator" to turn it on/off automatically on a time-scheme? or to have the PPI only available after a certain date? Not sure if geography showing up on radar would work, but it'd be pretty cool to use in certain situations. Same goes for picking up other radar signals on own radar in-lieu-of an SS board RWR. |
Glad you read reports, books, etc and learned how to use TDC. Of all the things wrong in SH 4, they did a decent job with the TDC and PK. Further enhanced by 3D TDC and Radar Range Unit mod , which is built into TMO. Manual targeting and proper use of TDC really brings the immersion level up and keeps this sim interesting. Thanks for the link, will check it out, but am quite familiar with the method. O Kane fired each torpedo as a individual shot in most cases, as did Fluckey and other top skippers. I typically use this method, depends on the shot. Some cases the single bearing (Middle of Target usually) , five at 5-6 second intervals, and/or with the spread knob sending them along length of target. I prefer O Kane's method, just depends on the set up.
Personally, I never cared for the "designer" shooting methods, tried some once back when first started and thought they overcomplicated things. Plus, having read some things as was learning to I have also noticed they get too much hype in lieu of doing things historically accurate (within bounds of sim) way using a well modeled TDC. "designer" methods serve to confuse new players more than anything else. New Captains really need to learn the fundamentals of manual targeting before switching to those methods.
Great thing about the 3D TDC and Radar Range mod incorporated into TMO is the radar is actually a functional tool, not just one there as a façade to make it appear have a radar. UBI was quite lazy developing a KEY tool US subs had during the war .
Personally only thing I've noticed that reduces premature rate in TMO are:
1.Keeping torpedo run 1000 yards or less. Basically, longer torpedo run, more time the torpedo has to prematurely detonate. From 41-October 1943 torpedoes not arm until reach 450 yards, so at a 1000 yards or less, not far to go. Takes sim time to decide if going to make it a premature. Noticed longer torpedo runs, more chance of premature.
1(a) Firing them at longer intervals does reduce chance of magnetic detonators being triggered by another torpedoes explosion due to distance. However, this can cause misses as well, depending target. 7 seconds is a long firing interval in most cases. I usually fire at 5 second intervals, which was typical but if 7 works, why not.
2. Playing a reloaded save game. This is a old SH 4 bug, basically loaded save games, seems to reset some things for remainder of patrol. I have noticed a much lower premature rate in saved games vs those not saved. I rarely play a saved game , as have a PC set aside just for SH 4. During testing of mod, when I have had to reload saved gams I noticed my premature and at time dud rate was way lower than supposed to be. Did further testing to confirm this.
Funny story. Recently, I was testing New Construction 1943 career start off New London CT (will be in forthcoming version) against a US DD(friendly fire) DD for "Depth Charge Indoctrination" Fired a practice torpedo which startled the DD, turned towards me, fired a second. Panicked DD, dropped a couple depth charges as it ran toward my scope (lol) They were set shallow and exploded...the second torpedo was close enough that the DC explosion, set off the torpedo lmao. Even though practice torpedo had the exploder set to contact only and running depth of fifty feet (have to shoot practice torpedo's below MOT to get a hit, which is how real torpedo practice was done on moving targets). Basically, in new construction player has opportunities to learn how to use TDC properly.
In all the extensive work and testing , I've never found that speed setting of torpedo is a factor in premature explosions. There is nothing in the files linking the two. Two factors I listed are what appear to be the factors involved with premature rate in TMO Update. However, it is possible that something in the code (which we can not see) has speed play a role, but again I've seen no indication. I plan to do some testing just to check on this. I assume you are usually playing a reloaded save game like most players and believe this is the cause of less prematures, but I could be wrong.
There is a reduce dud chance setting in the files, which I removed since the way it worked in the sim made torpedoes far too reliable, even when the reduction rate was set very low. Example, set reduction rate if torpedo speed is on low power to 0.5 percent from 10 percent reduction chance and torpedoes were still too reliable vs on high speed.
Default way that the sim determines premature is by wave height, with chance increasing at certain intervals of height. Calm seas, less prematures, heavy seas, prematures increase. Really disliked this, its kind of gamey, created predictability of torpedo performance and not reflective of what caused the issue. I tweaked the settings so that sea state now has very little to do with premature explosions and now have basically same chance in calm or heavy seas. I slightly reduced the premature chance in the upcoming version to prevent what were overall a absurd number( I had 20 out of 22 torpedoes on one patrol in testing, 19 out of 22 on second) , but still plenty of them. Have also altered things in upcoming version so contact exploder is not so reliable and depth control issues are not so predictable easy to work around. Basically, have them performing as close as possible to how they performed in early war.
Far as Radars and RDF in TMO...
Unfortunately there is no way to have SJ radar pick up land/geography or display radar interference from other radars without a hard coded fix, which we are unable to do. The APR-1 Radar Warning Receiver is how we can detect radar emissions currently and it was historically a vital piece of equipment once in service. Detect radar emissions without putting out your own as its a passive device. SJ could not always detect radar interference from enemy anyways, most of time it was from other allied subs. In V2.0 operating with Wolfpacks, APR-1 can give a idea of where you pack mates are located if can't pick them up on radar.
SJ can detect aircraft in SH 4 TMO, if they are flying low enough, will detect them and pip will show on screen. I had a BETTY other day flying in low, SJ had its pip on screen. Thing is aircraft typically tend to fly higher than SJ can detect.
As mentioned UBI was lazy in how it implemented SJ radar. Now, certain land objects such as destructible fuel tanks (which will be in the update, can shell them, order crew to shell them) can be detected on SJ in some cases. There is a invisible photo target which is actually just a invisible ship, which can be placed on land (fix for photo recon missions, place invisible target in front ) and SJ will detect it. These can be placed at key spots on land such as promontories etc, so can pick up "land" in that way. Problem is that is very time consuming and will just just show up as a lone pip on the scope.
Far as PPI scope, unfortunately am not aware of anyway as this time to hide the PPI scope until appropriate time and it has been discussed since I started with SH 4 in 2009 lol. Again, laziness by UBI to not make it where only the A scope is available at first. What I do is when have the SJ Radar, I only use the A scope, never look at PPI scope. When get the SJ-1 radar, start using both as that is when PPI scopes were introduced, with the SJ-1. Yes, would be better for immersion if it could be hidden or the screen blanked out at minimum via a mod until ready to use.
Far as SD radar....I am working to make it where can be turned on and off, like it is in FOTRS, so that can turn on and off as required, like on real patrols. I have improved the deck crews visual sensors as they were quite weak by default. Pretty ridiculous when you as player can see a contact at ten miles via smoke and outline but your deck watch can't, so they can see ships 8-10 miles depending on conditions, on very clear day a little further. This makes operating on surface without SD radar on in areas with heavy air traffic not suicidal as planes can be spotted in time , but then again sometimes they are not. Of course there is risk but planes are not always spotted. Overall if player can see it, they can see it, but they can actually see things further many times, which is fine, they are lookouts on elevated position.
Unfortunately, the team member for FOTRS mod who accomplished making the SD turn on and off is no longer active, so it is a process to figure things out to make the change without guidance. Caveat is, with this change in TMO we will lose to ability to raise the SD mast (which real subs ) had due to limitations of the sim, it is a either or situation, can have the choice to turn it on and off or have a extendable mast. Personally, I'd rather have it where can turn SD radar on or off. Always annoyed me UBI made it stay on at all times...clearly failed to do their research. With on a limited basis enemy units having ability to detect radar signals, discretion in radar usage will be important in V2.0
One approach I have considered as a stop gap is removing SD radar, making the SJ Radar able to detect planes at higher altitudes, essentially become multi purpose radar which can turn on and off. Problem can be for those of us who often run without map contacts, how will be determine if contact is a plane or ship if both are showing up on the scope, were as normally if not on scope, can assume its a SD contact. Also will have SJ providing far too accurate contacts on aircraft as they have different parameters for performance.
I am not sure, but do not believe it is possible to have the AI turn the radar on and off at intervals. I wish there was because it is needed for SJ as well. I know SJ you can hit the button to make a sweep then shut off, but have to order the SJ back on and give the order again.
Nice. Have read SILVERSIDES and BATFISH reports as well. The book "In the Course of Duty" by Don Keith , about the BATFISH is excellent. Covers her career, including sinking the three subs in 1945 and her post war life, the vets efforts to get her to a museum in OKLAHOMA lol. Quite a story how they moved her up there. Great read.
Should note in the TMO, the subs she sunk in Feb 1945 all appear at historic time and places, so can attempt to replicate the achievement. Like as it happened(as may have read or will read), IJN sub's radar emissions help player locate them via the APR-1, as surfaced AI subs will not show up on SJ(they will in V2.0) , which makes it a challenge. Player will receive a ULTRA about the subs. Quite a challenge to track attack and successfully sink them. Believe I've done it once in a actual career, once in testing. In testing one of the subs detected me and hit me with deck gun lol.
In V2.0 I've added a patrol objective to SubPac based Balao for that time period, where operating in the area with other subs as BATFISH was, get the ULTRA, orders to the Babuyan Islands to locate the subs. Basically, cam replicate BATFISH's patrol to some degree. Oh, the surface Japanese AI subs in V2.0 will fire torpedoes also.