[Sailor Steve]

Thursday, June 26, 1919

PARIS PEACE CONFERENCE

Mr Lloyd George's Residence, 23 Rue Nitot, Paris, 16:00

Meeting of the Council of Three


1. M Clemenceau says that Mr Wellington Koo had informed him that the Chinese Delegation would make a protest in order to satisfy public opinion in China. This would be done only in the hope that later on the clauses in the Treaty relating to Shantung would be revised. He wished to ask his Colleagues whether they thought the protest should be made before or after the signature of the Treaty. For his part, he would prefer that it should be after.

Mr Lloyd George agrees.

M Clemenceau points out that otherwise Romania might be encouraged to follow suit.

Mr Lloyd George says that it might even set a bad example to the Germans.

(It is agreed that M Clemenceau should ask M Pichon to request the Chinese Government to make their formal protest at the very last possible moment.)


2. The telegram drafted by Mr. Balfour regarding the sanctuary for the Kaiser and the escape of the Crown Prince is agreed to.

(M Clemenceau undertakes to dispatch it to the Dutch Government on behalf of the Conference.


3. M Clemenceau says that he has allocated 15 places in the Hall at Versailles for French soldiers who had specially distinguished themselves in the war, to witness the signature of the Treaty of Peace, and he will be glad to offer the same facilities to the British and American Governments.

Mr Lloyd George and President Wilson thank M Clemenceau for his offer, which they accept.

Mr Lloyd George asks what reply is to be given to the Turks.

President Wilson observes that Mr Balfour had already made a reply.

Mr Lloyd George says that this is not his meaning. He wishes to know whether the Turks are to be allowed to go or whether they are to be asked to meet the Representatives of the Powers, or should they be sent a letter suggesting that they should go home and return later on when summoned.

President Wilson expresses the opinion that it would be better to let them go. They have exhibited complete absence of common sense and a total misunderstanding of the West. They had imagined that the Conference knew no history and was ready to swallow enormous falsehoods.

Mr Lloyd George observes that this is Turkish Diplomacy.

President Wilson remarks that no promise had been made to reply to what they might say.

M Clemenceau agrees that they had only asked for a hearing.

President Wilson says that the Conference had given them sufficient attention. They had been treated favorably. They had been asked to come to the Conference and all they had wished to say had been listened to. They had been better treated in this respect than the Austrians.

Mr Lloyd George says that the question he had alluded to on the previous day was whether it was expedient to try and make Peace with Turkey without coming to a decision on the question of Mandates.

President Wilson says that he has reflected on this subject. It might be possible to tell the Turks that they must abandon their possessions in Europe and in certain specified territories in Asia, or else they might be told “Your territory will be bounded as follows - Turkey must renounce all rights over territories outside this boundary and accept in advance the disposal of these areas to be made by the Allied and Associated Powers.” Furthermore, “Turkey must accept in certain Departments of State - Finance, Police, supervision of the Coasts, the assistance of a Power, hereafter to be designated.” This appeared to him to be practicable and settlement of all other questions could be adjourned.

Mr Lloyd George says that this proposal is practicable if it be decided at once to take Constantinople from the Turks.

President Wilson observes that Constantinople is not a Turkish City; other races there were in the majority.

Mr Lloyd George says this amounts to a final expulsion of the Turks from Europe.

M Clemenceau says that he has an objection to make. If this solution is proposed to the Turks, they will refuse and will remain where they are. There is nothing ready to enforce immediate execution. What can the Allied and Associated Powers do? The whole of this question can only be settled at one time. For his part he agrees that Constantinople should not remain Turkish. The capture of Constantinople by the Turks had been, when it occurred, a very great event which had shaken up all Europe. Since then Europe has made every effort to maintain the Turks there.

President Wilson says doubtless because no successor could be found for them.

Mr Lloyd George says it is chiefly by reason of the fear of Russia.

M Clemenceau asks what immediate solution is in view. Constantinople had been offered to President Wilson, but he did not seem anxious to accept it.

President Wilson says he would take the proposal to the Powers but for the situation brought about by Italian action. The Italians had continued to land troops in Asia Minor. S Tittoni no doubt would cause these troops to advance still further. Conflicts are to be feared. What Italy aims at is to obtain a position such that she could not be evicted without hostilities. Should she continue this Policy, she would place herself outside the law. A great Nation which behaves in this manner loses all its rights. The problem of Asia Minor would be easily settled if Italy were not concerned.

Mr Lloyd George thinks it would be safer to say that Asia Minor would be “easier to settle”.

M Clemenceau agrees and points out that there would still be ticklish problems. He reminds the meeting that the Indian Mohammedans had protested against any division of Turkish Asia.

Mr Lloyd George says that they meant Anatolia.

M Clemenceau points out that the Greeks are in Smyrna and are extending up to Aidin. This was part of Anatolia. There is a considerable Turkish population in Smyrna itself. He is making no protest, merely drawing attention to facts. As to the Italians, they have seized ports and had stayed there in spite of clear warnings, they have advanced inland and are continuing to penetrate. He does not think that they will withdraw if asked to by the Council. S Tittoni now says “Smyrna was promised to us.” This means “Italy is a great nation which might perhaps make concessions. It will not leave Smyrna to others except for compensations”. He asks what is to be done.

President Wilson expresses the opinion that the Italian Government will not last. It will come to Paris and make claims which will not be accepted. These claims will be categorically refused and the Italian Government will be forced to withdraw.

M Clemenceau says that he is inclined to refuse discussion of Asiatic questions with the Italians for the present. He will say to them “We are now making Peace with Austria and we cannot allow negotiations to be suspended. The first question we must settle is that of the Adriatic.”

President Wilson says that he agrees.

M Clemenceau says that any haste in dealing with the Turkish question would be dangerous. For instance, there is the French view. France has a disagreement with Great Britain. He does not wish to raise this question until Peace with Germany had been signed. Fortunately, public opinion is not for the time being exerting any pressure. This is a piece of good luck. If, unfortunately, this question gets entangled with European questions, he is much afraid of what might be said and done by certain persons devoid of self control. If the Conference can reach satisfactory solutions of more important problems, public opinion will be greatly appeased and subsequent discussions will be rendered easier.

President Wilson says that for the time being all he proposes is to fix the frontiers of Turkey.

M Clemenceau said that is all that can be done and that as no immediate means of execution exists, the result would be deplorable.

Mr Lloyd George says that the Italian danger in Asia Minor is a matter of deep concern to him. The Italians are advancing straight before them and seizing in the interior everything that suits them. Great Britain has no ambition in this region, but he fears what the effect might be in Muslim Countries. This concerns Great Britain in Egypt and in India and France in North Africa. S Tittoni said that what Italy desires in Asia is mining concessions, but the Italians were now seizing everything that might be of use to them.

President Wilson observes that what they want is things it would be impossible for them to obtain under a mandate.

Mr Lloyd George observes that Italy alone among the Powers had not demobilized. She is afraid to do so out of fear of internal disorder. She has her troops and she is sending them to Asia Minor, to the Caucasus, and wherever she wishes.

President Wilson says that he has reason to anticipate a period of famine in the Caucasus, when British troops are withdrawn, by reason of a momentary influx of population. This is a problem to which his attention has been drawn and which must be borne in mind. As to the Italians, he thinks they should be asked clearly to state whether they remain in the Entente or not. If they do, they must take part with their Allies in the negotiations with Turkey and do nothing independently.

Mr Lloyd George points out that even according to the agreement of Saint Jean de Maurienne, the Italians have no right to the forcible occupation of all the places they have seized.

President Wilson says that he cannot go back and tell the United States Senate “Here is a Treaty re-establishing Peace”, if Italy is left a free hand. It would be on the contrary a Treaty preparing war and cannot be guaranteed by the Powers.

M Clemenceau says that as far as he is concerned, he will put the question to the Italians as clearly as possible. Fiume is at the present time administered in the name of the King of Italy. The local Government has lately asked the French General to expel the Serbians. The General had refused. The Italians had then expelled them themselves. The town is surrounded by barbed wire. This is a state of war. Is this the intention of the Treaty of London? The Italians are breaking their word there and everywhere else.

President Wilson says that they justified their presence in Fiume on the pretext that the Armistice granted them the right of advancing to reestablish order.

M Clemenceau says that they have gone so far in the last few days as to ask France for a small bit of French territory in the County of Nice to improve their frontier which according to them was ill-drawn.

Mr Lloyd George observes that this is madness.