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-   -   [REL]The Wolves of Steel - SH5 Megamod (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=210703)

vdr1981 07-14-15 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gap (Post 2328579)
Then, it was our community mistake not to rectify this stock error earlier :O:
Have you tried sinking a German ship after changing tha 0 to 1?

What for?
That change would make all German units part of Allied coalition and friendly unit kill would still be friendly unit kill. The game freezes only when you kill units from same coalition, regardless of your side...In SH5 our side is "Side=2" (AKA Axis).

But that is not the issue here... :hmmm:

The main problem for me is to understand why the game continues to spawn "Side=0" ships (aka neutral coalition) inside allied convoys if you say that something like should not be the case?

Could random convoys be assigned with coalition status in the first place?

Was Trevally even able to affect ships nations inside randomly spawned convoys and traffic, or is it completely random?

jannlord 07-14-15 03:25 PM

Good day fellow Kaleun's :arrgh!:
Are there any good tutorial for manual torpedo attacks using real nav and WoS?
I picked up real nav with the latest release and am really digging it :yeah:
but find it very difficult to hit my targets at all.
I tried using the Crew for taking speed and firing solution but they always seem to fail. :dead:
I am a total noob at this so any help is appreciated :)

Damo 07-14-15 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jannlord (Post 2328632)
Good day fellow Kaleun's :arrgh!:
Are there any good tutorial for manual torpedo attacks using real nav and WoS?
I picked up real nav with the latest release and am really digging it :yeah:
but find it very difficult to hit my targets at all.
I tried using the Crew for taking speed and firing solution but they always seem to fail. :dead:
I am a total noob at this so any help is appreciated :)

Hi jannlord,

Watch the Let's Play I've linked below (playlist) as he uses a very easy and effective plotting technique for sinking ships in Wolves of Steel on full realism.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...cPOAbTiHh0D0Lp

:salute:

THEBERBSTER 07-14-15 06:08 PM

A Warm Welcome To The Subsim Community > jannlord :subsim:
You Will Always Find Someone Here To Help You :sunny:
New To Silent Hunter <> Need Help <> Click On My Thread Link. :salute:
Subsim <> How To Donate <> See The Benefits <> Support The Community :yeah:

Post #24 Shaefer’s Season 2 Let's Play Silent Hunter 5 YouTube Videos :ping: :salute::salute::salute:

gap 07-14-15 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2328621)
What for?
That change would make all German units part of Allied coalition and friendly unit kill would still be friendly unit kill. The game freezes only when you kill units from same coalition, regardless of your side...In SH5 our side is "Side=2" (AKA Axis).

Sorry, I meant changing 0 for 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2328621)
But that is not the issue here... :hmmm:

The main problem for me is to understand why the game continues to spawn "Side=0" ships (aka neutral coalition) inside allied convoys if you say that something like should not be the case?

I agree. Before we start bothering Trevally on it, are you absolutely sure that they were neutral ships? As I told you the flag is not a reliable indicator for the nations I listed in my previous post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2328621)
Could random convoys be assigned with coalition status in the first place?

Was Trevally even able to affect ships nations inside randomly spawned convoys and traffic, or is it completely random?

As far as I know, even random convoys can be formed according to some criteria. Nationalities and unit type are among those criteria. So yes, you can avoid neutral (0=Neutral) ships from spawning within Allied convoys. This is possible because, in game, "dissident" navies are threated as completely different nations compared to their neutral counterparts (who share the same flag with them). Indeed, this is not apparent to the player, who is left to decide wether a certain ship is a valid target or not from her location and behaviour. Ideally, discriminetaion factors should be:
  • A ship sailing under a neutral flag within an Allied convoy should always be an "1" (badly implemented feature according to your report)
  • A ship sailing under a neutral flag who is bound for/leaving from an Allied port, should always be an "1".
  • A ship sailing under a neutral flag with obscured lights, should always be an "1". Not yet implemented feature though.
  • A ship (especially a small vessel) who is sailing under a neutral flag withinn her national waters, is a dubious case but she is probably an actual "0". In absence of other disciminat factors, better leaving her alone.
  • A ship sailing under a neutral flag with lit lights, could be an actual "0". But this is not always true: before Pearl Harbor US ships were sailing in full light, nonetheless they were considered valid targets long before the USA declared war to Japan and Germany; as above: feature to be implemented.
  • For unescorted/lightly armed vessels, a valid method which also reflects an early war tactic actually used, would be surfacing the boat and drawing ship's attection on our boat. Any hostile action (including abrupt changes of route/speed, zigzagging, aiming/shooting guns against our boat, sending SOS messages, etc.), would unveil any fake "0".
  • Historical radio messages should be integrated with BdU messages stating for each nation fom which date they can start being considered valid targets, and under which conditions (see my notes above). Of course the strict observation of those engagement rules should minimize the risk of wrong target identifications by us. This is only partly implemented in game.

Implementing/exploiting those features would add a whole new dimension to the game, putting our expeience of captains to test. :yep:

THE_MASK 07-14-15 07:50 PM

RE radio messages .
TheDarkWraithUserOptions
The percentage chance that the radio operation will intercept a radio message .
RadioMessagesInterceptChance = 50

Should this be increased to 90% chance ?

gap 07-14-15 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sober (Post 2328671)
RE radio messages .
TheDarkWraithUserOptions
The percentage chance that the radio operation will intercept a radio message .
RadioMessagesInterceptChance = 50

Should this be increased to 90% chance ?

In my opinion, no. Among the factors I listed below for discriminating among valid and not valid target, SOS messages are the ones I am actually not fully sure about. I am under the impression that New UIs spawns those messages pretty randomly, regardless of the diplomatic stance of the ship who has just spotted us. I remember intercepting a bunch of "scope spotted" or "SSS" messages while sailing in friendly ports, and this is tedious. Besides it, if we set enemy shipping along the lines of what I said in my previous post, we are left with a lot of cues wether to attack a given ship or not. There may be cases that we can't be 100% sure, bat that's realistic, and it is part of the fun! :up:

Oby 07-14-15 08:28 PM

Hi,Gap!

Are there any particular consequences in game if I have been spotted and got a red radio message?

gap 07-14-15 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oby (Post 2328685)
Hi,Gap!

Are there any particular consequences in game if I have been spotted and got a red radio message?

If you have actually been spotted, yes, there are good chances that the spotting unit(s) will make the best out of TDW's Units radio patch and call for reinforcements, supposed that her (their) radio equipment wasn't damaged. But IIRC, the SOS radio messages intercepted by our radio man are just a cosmetic feature. Getting them doesn't necessarily mean that we have been spotted.

MCM 07-15-15 02:28 AM

How do you recognize a if a ship is friendly or enemy? I have to dive really near the ship, am almost at fire torpedo resolution range and position... and then it is US eg. and I am not allowed. Is it the same for you? Frustration sometimes when you invest 20min with TC to come near only to see it is not for you.

Or is there a trick that will you have to recognize sooner if enemy or friend?

gap 07-15-15 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MCM (Post 2328710)
How do you recognize a if a ship is friendly or enemy? I have to dive really near the ship, am almost at fire torpedo resolution range and position... and then it is US eg. and I am not allowed. Is it the same for you? Frustration sometimes when you invest 20min with TC to come near only to see it is not for you.

Or is there a trick that will you have to recognize sooner if enemy or friend?

What is your current date? Starting from April 10, 1941, US merchants in the Atlantic should be valid targets...

Code:

[SideEntry 152]                ; /////////// U N I T E D  S T A T E S  O F  A M E R I C A (E A R L Y  E S C O R T S  A N D  P R E - W A R  S K I R M I S H E S) \\\\\\\\\\\\ (Unescorted Merchant Ships, especially around Central and South Atlantic between South America and Africa, Warships Escorting North Atlantic Convoys [SC, HX, ON, etc.])
Country=FreeAmerican
Side=1
StartDate=19410410        ; First naval engagement between an U-boat and the destroyer USS Niblack. Before USA had entered in the war openly, 4 American steamers and 1 destroyer had been sunk, and 2 destroyers had been damaged during engagement with German U-boats in North, Central and South Atlantic. You may want to change this date in accordance with historical records on the involvement of USNavy in early allied Convoys
EndDate=19411207        ; Attack on Pearl Harbor


Trevally. 07-15-15 07:18 AM

Hi All:salute:

I am not sure if I can be any help with the issues being discussed, but here is what I know:-

like Gap said - the nations that split into free nations are treated by the game as two separate countries. So this should not be an issue if player checks the flag. The flags are different for each.

Convoy make up is mostly random, but from a fixed pool. So if convoy HX*** has a pool including a free nation, there will be a % chance set for how many ships will be used in that convoy. % chances vary from convoy to convoy based on internet information about that convoy.

Radio messages can help here. Setting messages to inform player when a new free nation starts etc. This should be done in "red" message format to show the player this information is for them.
Within the radio message the % chance of receive for red massages should be 100% and set to repeat until received (boat may be underwater during transmission)

Hope this helps:)

gap 07-15-15 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevally. (Post 2328734)
Hi All:salute:

I am not sure if I can be any help with the issues being discussed...

Of course you can... who else? :up:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevally. (Post 2328734)
like Gap said - the nations that split into free nations are treated by the game as two separate countries. So this should not be an issue if player checks the flag. The flags are different for each.

yep, the problem arises when the player needs to discriminate between valid and not valid targets, among the ones sharing the same flag; i.e. Denmark vs. FreeDenmark, for instance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevally. (Post 2328734)
Convoy make up is mostly random, but from a fixed pool. So if convoy HX*** has a pool including a free nation, there will be a % chance set for how many ships will be used in that convoy. % chances vary from convoy to convoy based on internet information about that convoy.

Is it possible that you put some neutral nations within Allied convoys, when their Allied counterpart was already available in game? I.e. Danish ships instead of FreeDanish ones, by sticking to the nations in my previous example.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevally. (Post 2328734)
Radio messages can help here. Setting messages to inform player when a new free nation starts etc. This should be done in "red" message format to show the player this information is for them.
Within the radio message the % chance of receive for red massages should be 100% and set to repeat until received (boat may be underwater during transmission)

Hope this helps:)

Yes, this is exactly what I was thinking about. We should have done it from the beginning. :yep:
If an English mother tongue wants to preparate some make-up BdU messages along these lines, I am ready to assist him with all the needed information. A final revision by you would also help :)

CaptainFunk 07-15-15 09:56 AM

Firstly Thanks for all your work on this mod - excellent stuff.

A quick question - is there a way to change the SH3 dials UI back to the ones used in TWOS 1.03?

Oby 07-15-15 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainFunk (Post 2328773)
Firstly Thanks for all your work on this mod - excellent stuff.

A quick question - is there a way to change the SH3 dials UI back to the ones used in TWOS 1.03?

Yes,use the OptionsFileEditorViewer inside SH5/Data/Applications folder...


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