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gap 12-10-15 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2365049)
This is not nearly enough I'm afraid... You should stay there for at least 1 hour of sim time (with some light TC of course, 8-16). The attacking unit has to completely "forgot about you". Then, surface and provoke the attack again...
All should be done during the nighttime...

If it works again, then maybe some of TDW patches may have some unwanted "side effects"...I'll try the same test with some "suspicious" patches disabled...:yep:

Tested again. Night time. Surfaced the boat at flank speed. This time all of the three bunkers in range attacked me. Ordered periscope depth and full stop. Waited a little more than one hour (1h and 15 min to be exact) at 32x, Then, I looked outside in external camera. All the bunkers had their guns stuck at maximum elevation. This reminded me of ship guns getting stuck in the same position after firing starshells; I told myself "here we are, this is the bug that Vecko was talking about". Resurfaced the boat at flank speed. Before I could check what was going on, I saw a couple of flashes on the horizon, and I was dead. :dead:

Whatever you have experienced during your tests, it is happening erratically, or I can't reproduce it on my isntallation of the game :yep:

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2365053)
Well Gap, I must say that this really looks amassing! :o:up::up::up:

Have you already seen them in game? :o

Please check in the Library folder all the platform models I have created so far. There should be 10 of the IIRC, though in the test mission you can only see one of them. If you don't have other higher priority requests, I think I will finish the shore-shaped platform now :salute:

vdr1981 12-10-15 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gap (Post 2365065)
Tested again. Night time. Surfaced the boat at flank speed. This time all of the three bunkers in range attacked me. Ordered periscope depth and full stop. Waited a little more than one hour (1h and 15 min to be exact) at 32x, Then, I looked outside in external camera. All the bunkers had their guns stuck at maximum elevation. This reminded me of ship guns getting stuck in the same position after firing starshells; I told myself "here we are, this is the bug that Vecko was talking about". Resurfaced the boat at flank speed. Before I could check what was going on, I saw a couple of flashes on the horizon, and I was dead. :dead:

Whatever you have experienced during your tests, it is happening erratically, or I can't reproduce it on my isntallation of the game :yep:

Confirmed...I have disabled few of "suspicious" tdw patches and got pretty much the same resoults like you have described...:yep:
This may not be good in general, because I may have to get rid of some patches with all of their cool feature, like radio patches or units visual sensors vary with available light ecs (these are some of the patches that I've disabled...)


Quote:

Originally Posted by gap (Post 2365065)
Have you already seen them in game? :o

Please check in the Library folder all the platform models I have created so far. There should be 10 of the IIRC, though in the test mission you can only see one of them. If you don't have other higher priority requests, I think I will finish the shore-shaped platform now :salute:

Looking awesome, just few more requests please...:D
Bunker's "floor" texture is flickering when looked from the distance and it looks kind of ugly (check pic). The reason for this bunkers "low" placement on it's platform. If you elevate the bunker (or lower the platforms node/bone) slightly, the problem will be solved...Just slightly, 1m or so...:yep:

Also, It would be nice if bunker could be moved more toward the outer edge of the platform. There's to much empty space now and also this would give me few extra meters to ensure land proximity requirement...:yep:

http://s6.postimg.org/my0zwrxbh/SH5_...0_18_18_52.jpg


EDIT:
The platforms are perfect!:yeah:

gap 12-10-15 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2365081)
Confirmed...I have disabled few of "suspicious" tdw patches and got pretty much the same resoults like you have described...:yep:
This may not be good in general, because I may have to get rid of some patches with all of their cool feature, like radio patches or units visual sensors vary with available light ecs (these are some of the patches that I've disabled...)

Maybe re-enable them one by one until you track down the patch that is actually causing the problem. It would be a pity giving them all up just for this little annoyance :hmm2:

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2365081)
Looking awesome, just few more requests please...:D
Bunker's "floor" texture is flickering when looked from the distance and it looks kind of ugly (check pic). The reason for this bunkers "low" placement on it's platform. If you elevate the bunker (or lower the platforms node/bone) slightly, the problem will be solved...Just slightly, 1m or so...:yep:

Yep, noticed that myself. I think the flickering is due to the little amount of pitch and roll the unit still has. I can lower a bit the platform, no problem :up:

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2365081)
Also, It would be nice if bunker could be moved more toward the outer edge of the platform. There's to much empty space now and also this would give me few extra meters to ensure land proximity requirement...:yep:

Well, I don't know if I like the idea. Aesthetically, it would be like seeing someone who is sitting with his ass on the edge of a chair, very unconfortable and umpleasant to me :O: ...and functionally, rectangular, U-shaped and V-shaped platforms are long enough that you don't need for any extra meter :know:

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2365081)
EDIT:
The platforms are perfect!:yeah:

I had told you that with the new textures they would have looked much better. Have you noticed the green fouling edge marking the water line? :D

vdr1981 12-10-15 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gap (Post 2365095)
Maybe re-enable them one by one until you track down the patch that is actually causing the problem. It would be a pity giving them all up just for this little annoyance :hmm2:

I'll do that...


Quote:

Yep, noticed that myself. I think the flickering is due to the little amount of pitch and roll the unit still has. I can lower a bit the platform, no problem :up:
:up: It happens when two textures are "too close", it's quite frequent with gr2 ships, dont know why though...


Quote:

Well, I don't know if I like the idea. Aesthetically, it would be like seeing someone who is sitting with his ass on the edge of a chair, very unconfortable and umpleasant to me :O: ...and functionally, rectangular, U-shaped and V-shaped platforms are long enough that you don't need for any extra meter :know:
OK, fine with me...I just think that in some situations platform will looks like it sticks to much out of the shore line, unnecessarily...
There's nothing wrong how this bunker "sits" on this platform IMO...
http://s6.postimg.org/gyd8t4cj1/SH5_...6_02_48_05.jpg
EDITThis is the height which bunker should have in order to avoid flickering textures...

Quote:

I had told you that with the new textures they would have looked much better. Have you noticed the green fouling edge marking the water line? :D
I like it very much! :yeah::yeah::yeah:

gap 12-10-15 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2365101)
I'll do that...

:up:

If it is only happening in nigh time, the first suspect should be the units visual sensors vary with available light patch

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2365101)
:up: It happens when two textures are "too close", it's quite frequent with gr2 ships, dont know why though...

IIRC, I have read a long while ago that stock game has not this bug. If memory serves me well, the flickering textures issue started with a cam mod which was included in New UI's. I also remember someone having sent to me a fix, but I have no idea where I saved it :hmmm:

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2365101)
OK, fine with me...I just think that in some situations platform will looks like it sticks to much out of the shore line, unnecessarily...
There's nothing wrong how this bunker "sits" on this platform IMO...


EDITThis is the height which bunker should have in order to avoid flickering textures...

Is this better? :03:

http://i519.photobucket.com/albums/u...0_23.40.33.jpg

http://www.mediafire.com/download/zc...nker_Large.GR2

palmic 12-10-15 06:38 PM

Python API
 
Hey, is there some python API docs out there?

vdr1981 12-10-15 07:02 PM

Much better! Thanks! Although I've made almost the same change my self! My first tweak with GR2 editor... :yeah:
The reason why I was asking this form you is because, if bunker is placed close to the shore like in that picture of yours, it will not always work...Sometimes , it has to be placed even further away and that may look strange, if you understand what I mean...Anyway, both positions looks really OK IMO... :yep::yep:

Quote:

If it is only happening in nigh time, the first suspect should be the units visual sensors vary with available light patch
I think I know what is going on...It is not about patches, it's about radio...:doh::nope:
Stand by for more...

vdr1981 12-10-15 07:27 PM

It seems that when you've been spotted and nearby unit is called, the called unit will quickly set course in your direction with flank speed.
All will look fine until units gets few km from your position (or maybe from coastline, I dont know), and then it will simply stop, dead in the water...And that's it ...:nope:

Something like this is also happening in the campaign too... You get near Skapa, something spots you, and all moving active units gets stuck.

Now, this issue is probably due to coast proximity, because from what I know, radio function works really good at open seas.

Why our previous "sea unit" bunkers would stuck when they lost contact and not now when they are "land units"?
Because land unit can only "call" other sea units and not nearby bunkers...

There's also one more difference between bunker behaviors now and while they were "sea unit".
Befeore, if one bunker starts to engage me, the other nearby bunkers will do the same, even if they dont detect me directly with visual sensors.
Now, sub is engaged only from units/bunkers which can detect you...

To shorten this long story, the "radio fiction" is most likely responsible for the ugliest bug in SH5 IMO...

To test this you can add one destroyer 10-15km away in our CD test mission and observe what will happen...I'm eager to hear your conclusions...:yep:

gap 12-10-15 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2365226)
Much better! Thanks! Although I've made almost the same change my self! My first tweak with GR2 editor... :yeah:

:up:

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2365226)
The reason why I was asking this form you is because, if bunker is placed close to the shore like in that picture of yours, it will not always work...Sometimes , it has to be placed even further away and that may look strange, if you understand what I mean...Anyway, both positions looks really OK IMO... :yep::yep:

I think what matters most for bunkers being able to use their guns, is depth under the keel. You can get information on optimal seabed depth for bunkers placement, by opening your testing mission in ME2 and selecting the bunkers you have already placed and whose operativity was tested. ME2 will automatically udpate their height field with a negative number, which is seabottom's depth u.s.l. at their location. Future coastal defences must be placed in map spots having more or less the same depth. Should you need for it, you can adjust seabottom's slope in Terrain Editor. In any case, my upcoming sand-bank/seashore platform will solve the issue of concrete platforms looking "odd" if placed too far from the shore. You will hardly notice the difference with rest of the terrain it will blend with, and it will be collisionable as well as regular terrain :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2365226)
I think I know what is going on...It is not about patches, it's about radio...:doh::nope:
Stand by for more...

Radio? Which radio? :o

vdr1981 12-10-15 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gap (Post 2365231)
:up:



I think what matters most for bunkers being able to use their guns, is depth under the keel. You can get information on optimal seabed depth for bunkers placement, by opening your testing mission in ME2 and selecting the bunkers you have already placed and whose operativity was tested. ME2 will automatically udpate their height field with a negative number, which is seabottom's depth u.s.l. at their location. Future coastal defences must be placed in map spots having more or less the same depth. Should you need for it, you can adjust seabottom's slope in Terrain Editor. In any case, my upcoming sand-bank/seashore platform will solve the issue of concrete platforms looking "odd" if placed too far from the shore. You will hardly notice the difference with rest of the terrain it will blend with, and it will be collisionable as well as regular terrain :)



Radio? Which radio? :o

Look up :D

EDIT

Yes , I thought the same but it isn't like that...Some bunkers will work with -13m while others will be stuck even with -19m...I've checked that, it's something else...
I seems that those waves animations are some kind of border or something...

gap 12-10-15 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2365229)
It seems that when you've been spotted and nearby unit is called, the called unit will quickly set course in your direction with flank speed.
All will look fine until units gets few km from your position (or maybe from coastline, I dont know), and then it will simply stop, dead in the water...And that's it ...:nope:

Something like this is also happening in the campaign too... You get near Skapa, something spots you, and all moving active units gets stuck.

Now, this issue is probably due to coast proximity, because from what I know, radio function works really good at open seas.

Why our previous "sea unit" bunkers would stuck when they lost contact and not now when they are "land units"?
Because land unit can only "call" other sea units and not nearby bunkers...

There's also one more difference between bunker behaviors now and while they were "sea unit".
Befeore, if one bunker starts to engage me, the other nearby bunkers will do the same, even if they dont detect me directly with visual sensors.
Now, sub is engaged only from units/bunkers which can detect you...

To shorten this long story, the "radio fiction" is most likely responsible for the ugliest bug in SH5 IMO...

Makes sense. :hmmm:
I didn't notice any of the differences between "sea" and "land" coastal defenses that you are pointing to, because during my tests the radio patch was disabled.

In my opinion the radio patch is too cool for simply giving it up. Until (hopefully) TDW is back to fix it, a possible workaround is placing more blockships, more sub nets, more mines, more reworked coastal defenses and more airbases near major ports.

On a side note: one of TDW's patches (the one making sunk ships not to disappear under the sea bottom), might interfere with the reworked coastal defenses; more exactly with the "equipment" platforms. :yep:

EDIT: IF NOT, we have found a way to fix the problem of sub nets sticking out of the water surface when they hit the sea bottom and the said patch is enabled...

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2365229)
To test this you can add one destroyer 10-15km away in our CD test mission and observe what will happen...I'm eager to hear your conclusions...:yep:

Will do :up:

vdr1981 12-10-15 08:07 PM

Quote:

I didn't notice any of the differences between "sea" and "land" coastal defenses that you are pointing to, because during my tests the radio patch was disabled.
I think you should be able to test it, even without TDW patcher. The radio is built in feature, I think...The patch is only for "destructible" radio ? No?

Quote:

On a side note: one of TDW's patches (the one making sunk ships not to disappear under the sea bottom), might interfere with the reworked coastal defenses; more exactly with the "equipment" platforms. :yep:
No observed problems there...:up:

EDIT
...Because they are not "collidable" yet...

Quote:

placing more blockships, more sub nets, more mines, more reworked coastal defenses and more airbases near major ports.
...aaaand more CTDs...:haha: Heh , airbases... You wont find any help there...:)

gap 12-10-15 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2365236)
I think you should be able to test it, even without TDW patcher. The radio is built in feature, I think...The patch is only for "destructible" radio ? No?

Yes and no. Besides mimicing destructible radio equipment aboard ships, TDW's radio patch heavily reworks stock radio routines :yep:

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2365236)
No observed problems there...:up:

Well, in that case my edit below applies :yeah:

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2365236)
...Because they are not "collidable" yet...

Have you tried colliding them? I didn't but I can't move the camera through them, which tells me that they are physical objects now...

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2365236)
...aaaand more CTDs...:haha: Heh , airbases... You wont find any help there...:)

Why?

vdr1981 12-10-15 08:26 PM

[QUOTE]
Quote:

Originally Posted by gap (Post 2365238)
Yes and no. Besides mimicing destructible radio equipment aboard ships, TDW's radio patch heavily reworks stock radio routines :yep:

Well, apparently not enough, the bug can be observed without radio patches enabled, I've just checked that...

Quote:

Well, in that case my edit below applies :yeah:



Have you tried colliding them? I didn't but I can't move the camera through them, which tells me that they are physical objects now...
You can sail right trough it...The bunker is collidable though...


Quote:

Why?
Why?!:) Ask Ubi... :D
Seriously, more units/objects in small area, more CTD possibility...Simple as that... :yep: Add few airplanes there and ctd is almost guarantied...

gap 12-10-15 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2365241)
Well, apparently not enough, the bug can be observed without radio patches enabled, I've just checked that...

:hmmm:

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2365241)
You can sail right trough it...The bunker is collidable though...

Yep, I can confirm, just tested that, and it seems I had been too optimist. Tomorrow I will try making the new platforms collisionable, though it might be impossibe while keeping gun functionality unaltered :-?

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2365241)
Why?!:) Ask Ubi... :D
Seriously, more units/objects in small area, more CTD possibility...Simple as that... :yep: Add few airplanes there and ctd is almost guarantied...

Once air raids on ports were a serious problem, but as you probably remember the problem was coming from FX Updates debris, not from stock game, as Rongel demonstreted with his fix. Similarly, most of the units/objects we are placing around ports are imported straight away from SHIII-IV. You can't imagine how much redundant/obsolete data I see every time I open one of the imported dat files, including your recently imported ships :yep:

I am optimist that converting them to granny objects/optimizing them for use in SHV (with dds compressed texture, LOD models, subdued effects, more recent controller versions, etc.) will obviate problems, at least in part. :)


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