welcome aboard!
 

WOW, this looks amazing! Cannot wait to buy it and test it out for myself!

Great work!

For the time being, spread the word!:haha: Let's show that there is place for this game on the market.



Cannot wait to sell it to you either. :up:



All I am aloud to say for the time being is that we are on negotiations with a known publisher. Nothing is sure yet but I will be back with news pretty soon.


Thanks for the kind words. All of you!


Man your TMA stations and start tracking us :ping:

I think it's time for me as a pure player - and not as a producer or developer - to give you my opinion here. I've played almost all subsims which deserve that name and frankly: I don't think that any new submarine simulation although it can surely be done would be a golden egg as for financial success. The genre is simply saturated. If I want to play a submarine game, it's enough for me to buy or play what is already exsistant, no new game can IMO surpass what has been done by Ubisoft, or other great titles mentioned above like Cold Waters, Dangerous Waters, SH series, and even sub games of the 90s which some players prefer because of their simple gameplay and not for their stunning grafics. Even the niche of simplistic sub sims is filled (Crash Dive excels in this area.)
Then, an important factor for you to investigate is: These mentioned titles surely had (have) great success by submarine lovers, but were (are) they financial successes overall? Not in all cases I think.

Only thing I would buy at this point probably is a sub sim like Cold Waters but with multistations and *optional* complexity in the instruments of a submarine and crew management (go look at the original stand of U-Boat for that matter), but the dynamic campaign and re-playability would be crucial for me, also a convincing war environment in the form of an intelligent plot that comes with the campaign. Some days I find the simple UI of Cold Waters good enough to just 'dive' in the game, complexity is not a must for me. But problem for you is: there ARE such games already, maybe not with stunning grafics or included storylines or unexpected events now and then, but these may not be a buy criteria for a sub game. I simply have a very hard time to imagine how you could make it that much better to ensure you big revenues, but then: Some seconds to watch a good play-through video of yours could change everything for me to make it an instant buyer, that's what I hope!

Then another thing you may not find spoken-out too openly in these forums: For younger people, 'submarines' are a thing of the past, not a delightment of the present, more a thing for History books. Another analogy of the past: Why are there no tank simulators published so often today? Because even a 12-year old kid knows: Tanks are there to be shot down, it's their inevitable quick fate, no chance, no real fun in any sort of realism-oriented game. It's hard for young people to forget about super rockets and playing a WW1 or WW2 game; even modern submarines start to have this image of remote times. For you this means it can make a big difference (say lack) in the selling numbers for your title.



I hope this feedback is of some help to you, I wish you good luck with your project should it materialize.



Best greetings,
XS

Humm, this could be a true replacement for the Sonalysts sims Dangerous Waters, Sub Command and 688I!

It looks to be in very very early development stages, so right now, it's mostly promises...

But, you got my attention.

Thanks for the detailed thought. You are right. Financial success is a matter of perspective here. If in a parallel universe, I was EA with 9000 employees to feed anything that will cost me millions and doesn't return billions (I exaggerate to give emphasis) will be considered a failure.


Our perspective differs.




The reason that you don't find spoken-out too openly what you've described it's because this is not a fact but a an opinion. Our research so far is bringing different results and is based to the fact that simulators are not games but hobbies.
However, your opinion is, as always, well respected :Kaleun_Cheers:




Well that's the plan!




Can't blame you on that. Only future will tell then!


Thanks both of you!

My take as a player (and ex USN submarine officer if that matters)
1. I think the market is only saturated in WW2 subsims. I think that a spiritual to Dangerous Waters is long overdue. I'm loving Cold Waters but a real modern sub SIM would be wonderful.

2. If you agree with #1 then make it moddable. Greatly extends life.

3. Read or ask real submariners in your nation state(s) of residence about modern submarine operations...most modern subsims/games really miss out cool stuff that matters and is "fun" for a certain kind of player. Best recent example I can think of are both in Cold Waters. Game doesn't model diesel electric propulsion because it doesn't matter in combat. True. But it really matters on the campaign layer and I WISH they modelled it because it makes their 1968 campaign way less historically interesting than it should be.

4. See if there's a way to actually do raytracing in your sonar modelling. I don't think that any modern subsim has ever done this and it really matters. I think they just use standard formulae from Ulrich et al.

5. FOR THE LOVE OF PETE WHEN YOU MAKE YOUR SCENARIOS PUT IN A REALISTIC NUMBER OF BIOLOGICS AND MERCHANTS! I should be contact saturated in any littoral area in the world...even in 1968.

5. Don't expect to make a ton of money :(

v/r
feld

Hi Feld,


I don't know if you had the chance to take a look on our feature list ...
Somehow you must have hacked our GDD (Game Development Document). In simple words.


1. Thanks and it matters that you are ex submarine officer

2. Agreed and featured

3. Agreed and can't tell more
4. Agreed and we are designing a special engine only for the purpose of sound propagation.
5. Agreed and featured
5(6). Agreed and we don't care to make a ton of money but get the amount that is needed to make this project feasible.


Thanks for the sincere comments :salute:

Missed your feature list!

Mark me down as "tracking"! Also joined your Discord.

Is there a place I can wishlist this?

Certainly has my full attention looks good but as you can appreciate no one has developed a DW level modern subsim since 2005 so the community is a little skeptical.

However it would most certainly be very welcome should it come to fruition.

Honestly, that "since 2005" is the tinder of our current call.




That's what we like to hear!

I love the idea of different watches having different efficiency based on who’s on watch.

Looking good so far!

Thanks!


Crew management was a feature that on every modern submarine title that we got our hands on, was missing.
It is the spice in a good submarine gameplay experience.

I like the concept, I would really like an graphically updated realistic Sub Command clone, something that focuses on the submarines. A game with SH5/Wolfpack type interaction with the control room of a Virginia class attack sub would be ideal.

• Realistic TMA and Sonar stations
• Sonar analysis that is user friendly
  
• No cheat mode with magical underwater windows
• challenging, realistic enemies
• current world situation missions: Drug interdiction, Chinese, zee Russians, North Korea, convoy protection/attack, under ice cap missions where you have to find a suitable place to break through...

Financial: If you need funding, I would do it in stages: Release a demo for early supporters at $10; follow with an alpha at $10 additional, beta at another $10, then finished version at full price. Add in some full value DLC and you should be set.

Keep up the good work.
Neal

I would like something like that as well.

Sounds good!

1. Planned playable platforms (Virginia Class, Astute Class Type 214 or 212) suggest modern setting. Is it also implement modern ASW methods like multistatic sonar systems?

2. Will you implement different acoustic envronment for blue and shallow waters? What about regions with deep + shallow waters (shelf)?

3. Will you emulate different acoustic propagation near different kind of shorelines (fjords, flat sand beaches etc.) ?

Honestly said, my perception of all this gives a weired impression. Some of the answers you give, maslas, imo are evasive, and pointing at something vague. Lets put it this way: I seem to have picked up something on my sonar, but I cannot tell whether it is a whale, a boat, a ship, ours or theirs - or just a phantom echo of nothing from nowhere. Its just too little info in too weak a signal.

I do not want to discourage you, in case you mean serious business, but I would recommend to not step forward before you have something more substantial to show. This generally has only advantages, and no disadvantages. For example to not raise early expectations for which there is no substantial basis, just speculation and - well, people's individual expectations: will not backfire well! Spoiling tzo early a jump start can ruin a projects reputation forever, or at least years to come, even after it got better (Raceroom is a good example). Better advance the project silently, and "strike" not before it is advanced enough to indeed "kill". Once that happens for real, I may become an interested observer and if the content is right and the pace of work is promising and constant: maybe even an early supporter; but right now - sorry, but for me this thread is a bit too thin to base any further expectations on. Prove my scepticism wrong in the future, and I happily will change my attitude.

Lets meet again in 9-12 months or so, and then we see.


Nichts für ungut. ;)

I like what I see as an introduction. If you do get this to market with the goals you have set, you can absolutely count me as a customer. I will buy this product for sure.



- What timetable do you envision for the development of this project? Estimated of course.

- Are you considering distributing on Steam as a means to grow your customer base?

Thanks Neal,[*]Realistic TMA and Sonar stations, sonar analysis that is user friendly

We have spent a great amount of our time on the research of all the Virginia stations. Will do our best.


*No cheat mode with magical underwater windows

Cheat mode? No no no we are making a simulator here.


*challenging, realistic enemies
The two most challenging and time consuming development parts of this project. AI and a realistic sound propagation model.
The idea is that the difficulty will be dependent on AI capabilities and actual mission design and not on magic sonars, invincible hulls and supersonic torpedoes.


*current world situation missions: Drug interdiction, Chinese, zee Russians, North Korea, convoy protection/attack, under ice cap missions where you have to find a suitable place to break through...
As an initial war theater we are bending towards the South China Sea. For every new theater that we will introduce new mission features will also be introduced too.


*Financial: If you need funding, I would do it in stages: Release a demo for early supporters at $10; follow with an alpha at $10 additional, beta at another $10, then finished version at full price. Add in some full value DLC and you should be set.

Will keep your proposition in mind although we are targeting for a direct and complete release. DLCs will of course come later and bundles too.


Part of our research is modern naval ASW tactics in order to achieve a realistic AI responsiveness. Multistatic sonar systems should be included (e.g. Pairs of frigates with extended LFTAS on the hunt).



We are aiming to give selective territories with as accurate as possible underwater details (elevation, salinity, temperature etc.). As I stated before, the sound propagation model on this project is one of the most challenging tasks.




One of the challenging tasks. Will do our best!



It might be the teaser trailer that mixed your sensors and gave you that vague illusion. You see, it contains whales, a boat, a ship and the music theme gives this phantom echo of nothing from nowhere exactly as you describe!

But I can assure you that it is a submarine simulator that we are talking about here.

You don't and all the thoughts are accepted. That is all about this thread for. We are asking your opinions about the feasibility of a project like this! 90% of the answers are on target no matter if they are discouraging or not.

Ουδένα πρόβλημα. ;)

Thanks a lot :)

There is a time table already set on the table which is within realistic limits for a simulator of that magnitude but I will not say anything because it is too soon and it is a publishers call too on this matter. I am sorry!

That is also the publishers call but I am pretty sure we are!

MicroProse is doing something like that already
 

It's already in development. Google "MicroProse" and see what you find. I follow them on Facebook to keep up with what they are doing. But my memory is faulty and I have a hard time recalling names on a timely basis. Give me a few hours and the name will pop into my mind where I can output it again. But right now the name of the game escaped me. Sorry. Google will find it though.

MicroProse did a game called 1942 Pacific Air Wars back in the early 1990s and these naval power games will be similar to some of MIcroProse's older naval games.

https://www.microprose.com/#

Google MicroProse and found the names.

Sea Power
Task Force Admiral

Those are two of the new games that they are working on already.