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Ancient Mariner 01-18-13 05:39 AM

Late 1940.Patrol Grid CF34 out of St Nazaire. Got off to an evening launch,+- 100km offshore "Sub spotted" from watch,on further investigation I found an S class. Decided to attack on surface with guns....after a small exchange of cannon & flak fire she was sent to a watery grave.

Reached Grid CF34 patrolled for 24h then went hunting intercepted an ore carrier,was lucky to spot rising sun flag BDu would have had my bacon.....2 Days later intercepted a good size convoy with a fairly heavy escort(2 Black swan,Dido,S class & Flower) Tried a new tactic albeit unsuccesfuly of firing a spread into convoy,,,0 for 4....:down: Got ashcanned for a while...managed to escape but decided to try again.......snuck in from behind pn surface at flank....ended using all my eels for 0 kills.....:wah: 3 definite duds at 800m:/\\!! Second patrol in a row with many a dud eel...come on BDu...sort this problem out

Grun Teufel 01-18-13 08:31 AM

[QUOTE=TheDuke233;1938035]Recently in SHV, I was doing a photo recon of anchored enemy carriers in the Solomons...Snuck into shallow water camera range and alearted a Jap DD.. I had no option other than to shoot down the throat.. I fired a 3 torpedo spread and scored two hits, sending him to meet honorable ancestors..Got my recon photos and as I was doing a 180 for deeper water I heard another torpedo impact from the one that missed the DD...I thought I had hit the carrier as it was in the same direction I fired..Later in deeper water, I upped scope and observed smoke and flames on the horizon from the direction of the carriers...At 10K+ more yards and in deeper water I surfaced...Very soon thereafter I had an extreamly PO'ed Jap destroyer headed right at me, lobing shells while blazing and smoking away!! I had scored a very lucky hit with the missed torpedo on another DD I hadn't even seen!! :hmmm:...Dropped down below the thermocline, went silent and snuck away...10K+ more yards and a distant blazing DD in the periscope rear, I surfaced again...Yeah...you guessed it...Here he comes right at me with a bone in his mouth...Back deep and quiet, coming to periscope depth to cross the gap and into the deep sea channel, I surfaced again at about 15K..:huh:.Here he comes from out of sight range, still blazing and smoking but with a full head of steam...Enough is enough...This guy was going to chase me all the way back to Pearl Harbor...Another spread from my rear tubes and he went down...Prob a glitch in the software, but with a little imagination, it could have been a Jap DD with radar...

awesome action! Did you sail this patrol during the battle of the Coral Sea by chance? I do believe that happens somewhere around those islands.

Dronston 01-20-13 08:25 AM

sea depth charts?
 
I was assigned a grid near Freetown and after reaching and patrolling it I decided to check out if there was any bounty near the harbor of Freetown.
:arrgh!:
On the way I ran into a large convoy but was blocked by 3 black Swans and a flower class. Sank 3 of 'em but took damage and decided to not pursuit the convoy (also running out of fuel and torpedoes) 'cause it would take too much time to get into position after dodging my pursuers for several hours.
:know:
I was able to creep up just near the Freetown harbor entrance (P depth, silent running) and saw a 24k ton troopship and I couldn't resist trying to sink it (I know, not very realistic but very heroic). I ran aground, had some damage and went on decks awash and still did not get noticed. I fired two torpedoes at the troop carrier and hit it. Of course all hell broke loose and because I couldn't dive my tub was used for target practice. Needless to say my boat and crew did not survive, they will be missed and honored.
:salute:

Now for my question, is there a chart or mod telling me the various water depths around the world for SH3? That way I can determine if there is any depth at any given spot so I can work out tactics or a route when I plan another stupid action like this.
:hmm2:

Ancient Mariner 01-24-13 05:40 AM

Patrol 3: JAN 20 41:Assigned to grid AK 23.

Multiple sinkings in grids BF 17,41 & 42:arrgh!: 7 for 24k

Seems my complaints reached Bdu & they sorted me out some eels that explode when they hit target had 2 duds both MK2 electric.

All bar 2 traveling alone. Came across a small liner but she was making some serious speed NNW.Couldn't keep up. Then came across 4 ships in "convoy" waited for dark,got ready for 2 Large tanker kills......periscope up.....running lights on....:shifty:

RTB 02-10-41
Promoted & Medals for crew
40921 Merchant tonnage

Gustav Schiebert 02-02-13 03:09 AM

11 July 1944: BdU to all boats ... U-158 has failed to report in despite repeated contact requests. Task force last reported in AN22. Presumed sunk with all hands.

That was all the shocked U-Bootwaffe had to go on, when the telegraphists rushed through the boat and handed the signals to their commanders. Oblt Heller was dead. The greatest U-Boat ace, since overtaking Kretschmer last year, had fallen in the service of the Reich. No-one would ever know the full story of what happened to U-2547 and her crew...

* * *

On 07 July, Heller ordered 'ahead one third', and the Type-XXI boat U-2547 slipped silently out of the moorings at Bergen. No band, no parade, not like the first patrols out of Lorient. This was Heller's seventh war patrol, and the second in the futuristic elektroboot. Ordered to patrol the Western Approaches, the last patrol had yeilded 15,000 GRT - an impressive total at this stage of the war.

On the evening of 11 July, Heller ordered the boat to switch from schnorkel to electric propulsion. He sat on the control room hatchway door and peered expectantly at the hydrophone operator. His face was screwed up with concentration. "Warship screws ... 030! Moving fast! Long range!"

This was it. Heller took one of the headphones and scanned around. A task force. No merchants. "Well men!" he clambered back into the control room." Maybe it's time to show some Tommy destroyers the war isn't over yet. Rudder 20 degrees to starboard! Come to 330! Half speed ahead." The planesmen grinned as he slapped them both on the shoulders. Oblt Heller would come out on top. He'd been depth charged so many times before and escaped - even in his old Type-IX boat U-158. This elektroboot was Germany's salvation.

All that could be heard was the gentle hum of the engines, and the periodic whirrrrr-clunk of the periscope as Heller watched the Task Force cross his scope. "Dammit! They're going to slip past ... full speed ahead!" The men looked at each other as the engines sped up, going up in pitch and volume. Would the Tommies hear them like this? Heller called down the instructions to the bosun. "Going for that Hunt Class. Range: 2,300. Speed ... 14kts. AOB, 80 bows left. Spread shots from one, three and five - two metres depth, spread angle three degrees. Flood tubes one, three and five! Ready..."

Heller cursed. "He's seen us! Dammit ... switch AOB to 0! Spread angle to one degree ... fire!" The eels hissed from the tubes, and no sooner had the last one left the boat did Heller jump down into the control room. Rudder hard to port! Take her down! All ahead emergency!

Within minutes, the boat was at 110m. They hadn't heard any ASDIC yet, and all the destroyers were behind them. Heller ordered silent running and slowed to creep speed. He looked at the bosun, who's face was fixed on the stopwatch. He looked up and shook his head. "Missed, Herr Oberleutnant." Well, that battle was lost. Now for the next one.

The rumble of depth charges started far away. The men grinned at each other at first, they were slinking away at seven knots, even at creep speed. But then the screws started to surround the boat ... the hydrophone man started to report screws at 230, 250, 270 ... Heller constantly adjusted the course to try and head away from their course, keeping them at 180. But the explosions slowly got closer. Suddenly, the noise of propellers became overwhelming as a destroyer passed straight overhead.

For the next three hours, it was cat-and-mouse. Some of the bombs shook the boat so hard, the men thought the hull had been breached and the water was rushing in. They couldn't hide in 100m of water. The hydrophones were out, radar down, radio, two torpedo tubes, all the 'scopes, the port creep engine was destroyed ... Heller glanced at the Chief. As they read each other's thoughts, another blast shook the boat. "All batteries destroyed, Herr Oberleutnant! We're making water in the stern very fast!". Damn. Time for one last throw of the dice. "Blow the tanks, LI! Everything we've got! Get us on the diesels straight away when we surface..."

Even before the boat had fully broke the surface, the ting-ting-ting of the Oerlikons could be heard as the bows broke the surface. "First watch to bridge! Come to 180! All ahead, chief, FASTER!" The boat shook again, and screams could be heard from above. Heller clambered up the ladder, and stepped onto the bridge among the remains of his bridge watch. All four dead. He looked around him, almost blinded by the searchlights. Six ... seven destroyers! This was it. "Chief! Prepare the boat for scuttling! Abandon ship!" But it was too late. One of the destroyers raced out of the circling pack and made straight for the boat. As Heller looked back up over the side of the bridge, the last thing he saw was the bow of the destroyer as it slammed into the boat.

U-2547, and Oblt z. S. Ernest Heller, were no more.

VONHARRIS 02-02-13 05:27 AM

http://i50.tinypic.com/2zxvbco.jpg

Singed 02-02-13 07:28 PM

Starting over haha, the good news for everyone else is that the Tommies have GOT to be running short of depth charges at this point.

VONHARRIS 02-03-13 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singed (Post 2003415)
Starting over haha, the good news for everyone else is that the Tommies have GOT to be running short of depth charges at this point.

They never do. They have an unlomited supply of these tincans as well as counteless planes to makeour patrols a living hell.:wah:

LemonA 02-04-13 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav Schiebert (Post 2003105)
11 July 1944: BdU to all boats ... U-158 has failed to report in despite repeated contact requests. Task force last reported in AN22. Presumed sunk with all hands.

That was all the shocked U-Bootwaffe had to go on, when the telegraphists rushed through the boat and handed the signals to their commanders. Oblt Heller was dead. The greatest U-Boat ace, since overtaking Kretschmer last year, had fallen in the service of the Reich. No-one would ever know the full story of what happened to U-2547 and her crew...

* * *

On 07 July, Heller ordered 'ahead one third', and the Type-XXI boat U-2547 slipped silently out of the moorings at Bergen. No band, no parade, not like the first patrols out of Lorient. This was Heller's seventh war patrol, and the second in the futuristic elektroboot. Ordered to patrol the Western Approaches, the last patrol had yeilded 15,000 GRT - an impressive total at this stage of the war.

On the evening of 11 July, Heller ordered the boat to switch from schnorkel to electric propulsion. He sat on the control room hatchway door and peered expectantly at the hydrophone operator. His face was screwed up with concentration. "Warship screws ... 030! Moving fast! Long range!"

This was it. Heller took one of the headphones and scanned around. A task force. No merchants. "Well men!" he clambered back into the control room." Maybe it's time to show some Tommy destroyers the war isn't over yet. Rudder 20 degrees to starboard! Come to 330! Half speed ahead." The planesmen grinned as he slapped them both on the shoulders. Oblt Heller would come out on top. He'd been depth charged so many times before and escaped - even in his old Type-IX boat U-158. This elektroboot was Germany's salvation.

All that could be heard was the gentle hum of the engines, and the periodic whirrrrr-clunk of the periscope as Heller watched the Task Force cross his scope. "Dammit! They're going to slip past ... full speed ahead!" The men looked at each other as the engines sped up, going up in pitch and volume. Would the Tommies hear them like this? Heller called down the instructions to the bosun. "Going for that Hunt Class. Range: 2,300. Speed ... 14kts. AOB, 80 bows left. Spread shots from one, three and five - two metres depth, spread angle three degrees. Flood tubes one, three and five! Ready..."

Heller cursed. "He's seen us! Dammit ... switch AOB to 0! Spread angle to one degree ... fire!" The eels hissed from the tubes, and no sooner had the last one left the boat did Heller jump down into the control room. Rudder hard to port! Take her down! All ahead emergency!

Within minutes, the boat was at 110m. They hadn't heard any ASDIC yet, and all the destroyers were behind them. Heller ordered silent running and slowed to creep speed. He looked at the bosun, who's face was fixed on the stopwatch. He looked up and shook his head. "Missed, Herr Oberleutnant." Well, that battle was lost. Now for the next one.

The rumble of depth charges started far away. The men grinned at each other at first, they were slinking away at seven knots, even at creep speed. But then the screws started to surround the boat ... the hydrophone man started to report screws at 230, 250, 270 ... Heller constantly adjusted the course to try and head away from their course, keeping them at 180. But the explosions slowly got closer. Suddenly, the noise of propellers became overwhelming as a destroyer passed straight overhead.

For the next three hours, it was cat-and-mouse. Some of the bombs shook the boat so hard, the men thought the hull had been breached and the water was rushing in. They couldn't hide in 100m of water. The hydrophones were out, radar down, radio, two torpedo tubes, all the 'scopes, the port creep engine was destroyed ... Heller glanced at the Chief. As they read each other's thoughts, another blast shook the boat. "All batteries destroyed, Herr Oberleutnant! We're making water in the stern very fast!". Damn. Time for one last throw of the dice. "Blow the tanks, LI! Everything we've got! Get us on the diesels straight away when we surface..."

Even before the boat had fully broke the surface, the ting-ting-ting of the Oerlikons could be heard as the bows broke the surface. "First watch to bridge! Come to 180! All ahead, chief, FASTER!" The boat shook again, and screams could be heard from above. Heller clambered up the ladder, and stepped onto the bridge among the remains of his bridge watch. All four dead. He looked around him, almost blinded by the searchlights. Six ... seven destroyers! This was it. "Chief! Prepare the boat for scuttling! Abandon ship!" But it was too late. One of the destroyers raced out of the circling pack and made straight for the boat. As Heller looked back up over the side of the bridge, the last thing he saw was the bow of the destroyer as it slammed into the boat.

U-2547, and Oblt z. S. Ernest Heller, were no more.


1.) How does it comes that he was somewhat "surprised" by the superior military power of 5 or 6 destroyers
and that he didn't noticed that the unsuitability and inability of his hydrophone-operator was a life risk for the whole crew?
2.) An operator call "Warship screws ... 030! Moving fast! Long range!" is according to every u-boat textbook a signal to stay away or proceed with utmost caution and not a signal for a offensive'strategy.
3.) And if all goes south then there must be more than dive, dodge and turn corners. There must be a plan B, there has to be special life-saving evasive strategies against destroyes (for example against a high speed appraoch the Horberg-S ). None of these took place.

Ernest Heller was seriously at fault, if you ask me. And he should go down into the history books as a tragic example of incompetance and naivety.

Gustav Schiebert 02-04-13 06:37 PM

LemonA, thanks for reading and your thoughts! Not sure specifically which 'textbooks' you're referring to, but in reference to point 2:


Do not see danger everywhere and in everything, do not overestimate the enemy, do not always seek to place yourself in his position, do not assume that everything that is going on in the theater of war applies to yourself - these internal reservations and scruples are a sign of uncertainty, and of a negative attitude, which impairs your ability to reach a decision, and endangers the success of the operations.
Audacity and a readiness to take responsibility, coupled with cool, clear thinking, are the pre-conditions and the basis of success.

(Section I, Para 16, U. Kdt. Htb.)

The rare opportunity of attacking an enemy concentration of ships must be used, by going all out, with all the torpedoes, even in spite of the strongest enemy escort. One of the ships of the concentration should be attacked, and the attack carried out, by a method suited to the position of the target, in a manner calculated to annihilate the latter; immediately afterwards a second and third ships should be attacked where possible.

(Section II, Para 134, U. Kdt. Htb.)

Evasive manoeuvres were, I grant you, over-simplified in the write-up for readability. 100m is too shallow to attack but I can assure you U-2547 was doing no passive lurking or blundering turning while getting depth-charged. I suppose 'the plan', inasmuch as there was one, was to do a Schnee and escape underwater before the torpedoes hit, hence the firing at a fair distance to allow escaping.

Arnold 02-12-13 02:20 AM

2 AUG 41, U-651...* intercom crackles * Attention! Thanks to Jaesen Jones and SH3 Commander v 3.2.0.203, I have removed all fatigue exclamation points from our boat. No more complaining about being tired! From now on, the bosuns will maintain the good order of the boat, by keeping the following watch bill and six-hour rest period for the crew. Engine room: 6 hours, E-room: 6 hours, Deck watch (fair weather) 4 hours, Deck watch (foul weather) 2 hours, Radio: 6 hours, Sonar: 6 hours, Helmsman: 6 hours, Control room: 6 hours, Bow torpedo maintence 6 hours, Stern torpedo maintence, 6 hours. That is all.

Riccardo1975 02-12-13 08:17 AM

Chasing Task Forces?
 
I've been playing submarine sims since the days of Silent Service.

You have to be pretty dumb to attack a task force on purpose.:doh:

Dive deep, go quiet and head in the opposite direction preferably into deeper water with your fingers crossed that you haven't been spotted..

I never attack more than two and only if they are heading for me in a straight line,whilst I'm at scope depth, rigged for silent running.

Heller bought his tickets and then won the raffle.:yep:

Oberleutnant R A J Murphy
U-111

sublynx 02-12-13 02:19 PM

There was a time in 1943 during the war that the U-boats were ordered to attack destroyers. The first such attack against the destroyer screen of a convoy was a success and the second a disaster.

I think a decision to attack a hunter group with a type XXI could have been historically possible if there would have been XXI's around. It's something I would not attempt light-heartedly, though.

Gustav Schiebert 02-12-13 03:15 PM

At the risk of going a bit off topic... and thanks to everyone who's commented on this, it's nice to get some real feedback from other players. What the forum's all about.

I suppose the disparity might be because I very much play 'in character', trying to act as a real U-boat commander would have done. I accept all the arguments that people put saying it was incredibly dangerous, and yes it was done with an element of suicidal madness. But that was realistic suicidal madness.

Real U-boat commanders attacked much stronger enemies, with much worse boats, in much worse situations. And they had more at stake than their 3-year DID campaign. A great number of them died, but some succeeded. Commanders were expected to attack when the odds were against them - and a Knight's Cross Oakleaves Swords winner, commanding a XXI, would have a certain amount of expectation to attack.

Furthermore, attacking a task force was in many ways safer than attacking a convoy full of ASW assets. Task forces cruised at 15-20kts at times - too fast to use ASDIC. And a commander would likely maintain speed rather than hunting for a single U-boat - at this stage in the war the danger from Gnats was too great for everybody to sit still and scan for a sub. Better to remain at speed, invulnerable to Gnats and rely on best speed to cruise out of the attack zone before the U-boat can attack.

I'm not getting shirty about some criticising the decision - that's what this thread's for. But I do object to people putting it down to amateurish over-enthusiasm, because that by extension applies to all the commanders and crew who died in the same circumstances in real life - on all sides. Submarine warfare is a one-sided business.

Rant over - I won't clog up this thread any more with my ravings on this one :p

Arnold 02-17-13 12:02 AM

8 NOV 41, 23:50, U-651, 1st Flotilla, 16th patrol. While heading SW to patrol grid CF64, a report was received, via radio direction finding, regarding an enemy ship, heading NNE, aprox. 214 km away, SW of our position. Orders were given to increase speed to 13 kts. and change course to 200 degrees. The enemy's course was plotted on the chart, along with our intersecting course. Clear skies, a half moon and heavy seas greeted me as I went on deck. I scanned the sky to see the different star formations I had remembered when I was in the Boy Scouts. "There!" "The Big Dipper, with the two stars at the end of the cup, pointing to the North star." I climbed down the ladder to the conning tower, patting the helmsman on the shoulder, then climbing down to the control room. I advised the Chief Engineer to contact me when we were 50 km away from our contact's course. I retired to my bunk for a nap. 0540, I was woke by the navigator, who told me we had reached a point aprox. 50 km away from the course of the enemy ship. I ordered a dive to 30 meters, at 1 kt. At 30 meters, I listened, using the sound man's headset, for any sound of a ship. Nothing. "Surface!" "Same course!" "Ahead full!". 0800, 5 km from the enemy course, I ordered a dive to 30 meters at 1 kt. 0839, sound contact! bearing 251! "New course 108 degrees!" "Surface!" I marked the map, at a point about 17 km away from the boat at 251 degrees. 0855, sound contact! bearing 63 degrees! Marked the map, at a point about 14 km away from the boat at 63 degrees. I connected both marks on the map to determine the aprox. course of the contact. Marked a 90 degree intersecting course to enemy course. On deck, the morning sun is just off our starboard bow. 0908, aprox. 4 km from the intersecting enemy course, "Dive to 30 meters!" "Ahead 1/3!" 0911, contact! bearing 59 degrees! 2.5 km from intersecting point. I gave rudder commands to line the boat up with the 90 degree intersecting course. 0921, at a point aprox. 4 km away from the contact, "All stop!", scope observation. "There she is!" Heading right at us!" "Ahead standard!" Connect stern tube!" 0939, "All stop!" 0948, scope check. "It's a Brit!" "Open stern cap!" acquired solution "Fire tube five!" "Hit!" "New course 30 degrees, ahead standard!" "She's a C3!" "She's slowed to 1 kt!" "She's dead in the water!" "Open bow cap, tube 1!"!" "Rudder 9 degrees to port!" "Ahead slow!" I marked a 90 degree intersecting course to the ship. Line up for final shot(s), rudder 0 degrees, gryroangle 0 degrees, range 900 meters. "All stop!" "Fire, tube 1!" "Open bow cap, tube 2!" "Fire tube 2!" "That broke her back!!" "There she goes!" "Ahead 1 kt., dive to 50 meters, return course to patrol area". "We'll contact BdU once we have put some distance from this area". "Re-load tubes, then take a rest men, you have earned it!". Lt. jg. Carl A. Lange Jr.

Marcello 02-17-13 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav Schiebert (Post 2008617)
At the risk of going a bit off topic... and thanks to everyone who's commented on this, it's nice to get some real feedback from other players. What the forum's all about.

I suppose the disparity might be because I very much play 'in character', trying to act as a real U-boat commander would have done. I accept all the arguments that people put saying it was incredibly dangerous, and yes it was done with an element of suicidal madness. But that was realistic suicidal madness.

Real U-boat commanders attacked much stronger enemies, with much worse boats, in much worse situations. And they had more at stake than their 3-year DID campaign. A great number of them died, but some succeeded. Commanders were expected to attack when the odds were against them - and a Knight's Cross Oakleaves Swords winner, commanding a XXI, would have a certain amount of expectation to attack.

Furthermore, attacking a task force was in many ways safer than attacking a convoy full of ASW assets. Task forces cruised at 15-20kts at times - too fast to use ASDIC. And a commander would likely maintain speed rather than hunting for a single U-boat - at this stage in the war the danger from Gnats was too great for everybody to sit still and scan for a sub. Better to remain at speed, invulnerable to Gnats and rely on best speed to cruise out of the attack zone before the U-boat can attack.

I'm not getting shirty about some criticising the decision - that's what this thread's for. But I do object to people putting it down to amateurish over-enthusiasm, because that by extension applies to all the commanders and crew who died in the same circumstances in real life - on all sides. Submarine warfare is a one-sided business.

Rant over - I won't clog up this thread any more with my ravings on this one :p

As I see it, going after a task force is a mistake. Escorts were easy to replace and relatively expendable, especially late in the war. Sinking merchants loaded with supplies, while still easy to replace, caused some direct damage to the enemy economy and with a bit of luck to the enemy land forces themselves depending on the nature of the cargo. Put it this way, what do you think it is bigger loss of the following:
A) A frigate of 1400 tons.
B) A merchant of 14000 loaded with tin/rubber/wheat/tanks spares.
The only exception I would make is for high value warships: battleships, fleet carriers, large cruisers, as these were a harder to replace and would have an impact on operations on land.
Risk for risk it is still better to attack a convoy than a typical ASW task force.

Pranne 02-19-13 07:23 AM

...
 
Its December 1940 and iam with my IXB on patrol in BE36 and around, lots of single ships underway.

Pranne 02-19-13 07:45 AM

...
 
Its December 1940 and iam with my IXB on patrol in BE36 and around, lots of single ships underway.

Mork_417 02-25-13 04:02 PM

Heading out on 11th Patrol.
 
Well, all promotions & medals have been handed out, and the crew had some time to blow off. :rock: Decided to upgrade U-50's engines which according to my office calendar pushed my sailing date out from Feb 8th to March 8th. However, I have just left port, and the Captain's log is showing it's still Feb 8th. :06:

Anywho, it's Feb 8th, 1940 (we think), and we are heading to AM-97. :arrgh!:

Synthfg 02-27-13 04:08 PM

I Hate 1939
What idiot invented the neutrality laws :down:
Patrol 3, late sept
Nice grotty weather to hide in on the run into and through the channel, yet every merchant I get close to is either Dutch Irish or bloody Belgian

FFS 2 huge Belgian tankers line astern heading towards the port of London, Prime unescorted targets, massive tonnage, and I can't :arrgh!: them :Kaleun_Crying:


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