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-   -   [REL]The Wolves of Steel - SH5 Megamod (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=210703)

fitzcarraldo 07-14-15 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2328458)
Aaa, shuuuut...Thanks Peter! :up:
That "dds-remove" extension tricked me again. I'll add it back again as soon as I upload first 1.04 patch...:yep:




I've never thought that "Should I attack friendly ships?" question will ever be necessary in FAQ section... :D

What you have experienced there is common SH5 behavior when you are fit for court-martial...:03:

Well... As a noobie SH5 player I never think attacking a friendly ship will freeze the game...It seems designed to bypass the martial court.

As I'm testing the game I would to try it sinking some ships...:arrgh!:

Many thanks and best regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

gap 07-14-15 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sober (Post 2328477)
All Polish vessels are to be considered hostile and valid targets which may be attacked at the commander's discretion.|Vessels of other nations are considered neutral and are not to be attacked.|OKM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fitzcarraldo (Post 2328490)
Well... As a noobie SH5 player I never think attacking a friendly ship will freeze the game...It seems designed to bypass the martial court.

As I'm testing the game I would to try it sinking some ships...:arrgh!:

Many thanks and best regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

I think it is a side effect of New UIs. Hope TDW will fix it one day. :hmmm:

Discriminating among valid and not-valid targets is not always that easy. During the making of OHII, many nationalities where split in two nations sharing the same flag, one neutral, and the other on the Allies side. It was done to reflect those merchant fleets whose ships were considered valid targets in every-day practice, when they were thought to smuggle goods to England, even though their flag states were officially neutral. Both copies of the same nation can have merchant ships assigned, but the difference is that non-enemy counterparts only got coastal traffic. The nations I am talking about are: Finland, Sweeden, Denmark, The Netherlands, Greece, Yugoslavia, Estonia, Latvia, USA, Panama and Brazil. As a rule of thumbs, while those nations are officially neutral, attack their ships only when they are found within convoys, or when they are obviously heading to/from a British port. On the other hand attack ships sailing near the coasts of their home Nations at your own risk.

In any case, I think we should add some notes on this subject among the historical messages, in order to make things easier for players. :yep:

vdr1981 07-14-15 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gap (Post 2328493)
Discriminating among valid and not-valid targets is not always that easy.

Unfortunately, SH is very straightforward regarding neutral shipping.
The game will punish you if you sink neutral ship no matter which year it is or where neutral ship was sunk. Even if neutral ship is placed in British protected convoy, the game will still give you negative rating points which are very important for progress and so hard to earn...

The best example of this is one of my convoy attacks during the happy times. I was unfortunate enough to sink three Greek steamers in a convoy protected by British destroyers. The game gave me -3 rating points for this. In normal gameplay you'll need something like 100.000 - 150.000 tons of enemy shipping to replace this loss...

In short, with current OHII settings it's always better to avoid neutral shipping ,even in convoys...Kind of stupid but it's the way it is...

IMO it is perfectly OK to be penalized if neutral ship was sunk but it's not good to receive same penalties if neutral ship is in allied convoy.
The best and only solution would be to remove neutral shipping from allied convoys...

gap 07-14-15 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2328508)
Unfortunately, SH is very straightforward regarding neutral shipping.
The game will punish you if you sink neutral ship no matter which year it is or where neutral ship was sunk. Even if neutral ship is placed in British protected convoy, the game will still give you negative rating points which are very important for progress and so hard to earn...

The best example of this is one of my convoy attacks during the happy times. I was unfortunate enough to sink three Greek steamers in a convoy protected by British destroyers. The game gave me -3 rating points for this. In normal gameplay you'll need something like 100.000 - 150.000 tons of enemy shipping to replace this loss...

In short, with current OHII settings it's always better to avoid neutral shipping ,even in convoys...Kind of stupid but it's the way it is...

IMO it is perfectly OK to be penalized if neutral ship was sunk but it's not good to receive same penalties if neutral ship is in allied convoy.
The best and only solution would be to remove neutral shipping from allied convoys...

Vecko, please re-read my previous post and have a look into OHII's DefSide.cfg. I know what I am talking about as I myself created the core of that file, and discussed the feature with Zedi and Trevally. Neutral ships within Aliied convoys should be fake neutrals. If they aren't, they are there by mistake and should be replaced with the enemy counterparts of the same nations.

Eventually, we can equip actual neutral ships with lights. At least some of them. I am pretty confident that we can illuminate ships by nation and by date, while still keeping the same 3D model, the way we assign them different armaments and sensors. We just need to add some new bones on the ships, create dummy copies of them, and link some emissive material to them. :up:

On a side note, you said that sinking neutrals ships will penalize the player with negative reward, which I am glad of. Does it mean that not always neutral ship sinking ends with an instant CTD? :hmm2::rock:

fitzcarraldo 07-14-15 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gap (Post 2328514)
Vecko, please re-read my previous post and have a look into OHII's DefSide.cfg. I know what I am talking about as I myself created the core of that file, and discussed the feature with Zedi and Trevally. Neutral ships within Aliied convoys should be fake neutrals. If they aren't, they are there by mistake and should be replaced with the enemy counterparts of the same nations.

Eventually, we can equip actual neutral ships with lights. At least some of them. I am pretty confident that we can illuminate ships by nation and by date, while still keeping the same 3D model, the way we assign them different armaments and sensors. We just need to add some new bones on the ships, create dummy copies of them, and link some emissive material to them. :up:

On a side note, you said that sinking neutrals ships will penalize the player with negative reward, which I am glad of. Does it mean that not always neutral ship sinking ends with an instant CTD? :hmm2::rock:

My attack test was a lonely neutral ship sunk (near coast), and game freezing. The game lets me sink the ship, I see the ship sinking with huge flames. When I click the Captainīs logbook button in the upper right vertical bar - that with hat - the game freezes. It seems the game didnīt like to put the entry for the sunk ship in the book, and CTD.

The game didnīt CTD when attacking and sinking with deck gun the neutral ship, only after press the logbook button it crashes. And I press this button 15 minutes aprox. from the sinking; this was complete and without problems.

Best regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

vdr1981 07-14-15 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gap (Post 2328514)
Vecko, please re-read my previous post and have a look into OHII's DefSide.cfg. I know what I am talking about as I myself created the core of that file, and discussed the feature with Zedi and Trevally. Neutral ships within Aliied convoys should be fake neutrals. If they aren't, they are there by mistake and should be replaced with the enemy counterparts of the same nations.

I see, and the idea is really realistic , just as it should be...

But, can you confirm that "fake neutrals" feature actually works in the campaign because it seems to me that I've never met one of those?:hmmm:
It's pretty easy to determent if unit is classified as neutral or enemy, TDW destroyed mark will show you just that every time, plus there is a DestroyedUnits.ini file where same thing can be checked...





Quote:

Originally Posted by gap (Post 2328514)
On a side note, you said that sinking neutrals ships will penalize the player with negative reward, which I am glad of. Does it mean that not always neutral ship sinking ends with an instant CTD? :hmm2::rock:

Of course not, that was never the case...Only friendly kill will freeze the game when captain's log is clicked...From some reason this is also true for Polish merchants if you attack them before 1st Sept 1939...:hmmm: EDIT: And I think I've just learned why...
Code:

[SideEntry 1]                ; /////////////////////////// G E R M A N Y \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
Country=German
Side=0
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19390831

Germany is also neutral from some reason until 1st Sept 1939. Therefore, game thinks that actual kill was friendly and freez it self when log is opened..

vdr1981 07-14-15 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fitzcarraldo (Post 2328524)

The game didnīt CTD when attacking and sinking with deck gun the neutral ship, only after press the logbook button it crashes. And I press this button 15 minutes aprox. from the sinking; this was complete and without problems.

Best regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

That was friendly ship, not neutral...Note that Netherlands ports are all blue at that time

fitzcarraldo 07-14-15 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2328536)
That was friendly ship, not neutral...Note that Netherlands ports are all blue at that time

OK, I understand. Many thanks.

All the best.

BTW: Will you take the vacations or not? Go and see a real sea, and enjoy, mate!!!

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

vdr1981 07-14-15 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fitzcarraldo (Post 2328545)

BTW: Will you take the vacations or not? Go and see a real sea, and enjoy, mate!!!

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

Tomorrow afternoon...I'll spam here just a little bit more...:D

gap 07-14-15 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2328536)
That was friendly ship, not neutral...Note that Netherlands ports are all blue at that time

So sinkinking friendly ships has not the same effect as sinking neutral ones, as far as CTD's are concerned?

gap 07-14-15 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2328546)
Tomorrow afternoon...I'll spam here just a little bit more...:D

I didn't dare asking, but since you are still here, what about putting back the changelog at post #1? :D

vdr1981 07-14-15 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gap (Post 2328514)
On a side note, you said that sinking neutrals ships will penalize the player with negative reward, which I am glad of. Does it mean that not always neutral ship sinking ends with an instant CTD? :hmm2::rock:

Of course not, that was never the case...Only friendly kill will freeze the game when captain's log is clicked...From some reason this is also true for Polish merchants if you attack them before 1st Sept 1939...:hmmm: EDIT: And I think I've just learned why...
Code:

[SideEntry 1]                ; /////////////////////////// G E R M A N Y \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
Country=German
Side=0
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19390831

Germany is also neutral from some reason until 1st Sept 1939. Therefore, game thinks that actual kill was friendly and freez it self when log is opened..



Quote:

Originally Posted by gap (Post 2328553)
I didn't dare asking, but since you are still here, what about putting back the changelog at post #1? :D

What changelog?:hmm2:

gap 07-14-15 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2328555)
Of course not, that was never the case...Only friendly kill will freeze the game when captain's log is clicked...From some reason this is also true for Polish merchants if you attack them before 1st Sept 1939...:hmmm: EDIT: And I think I've just learned why...

Germany is also neutral from some reason until 1st Sept 1939. Therefore, game thinks that actual kill was friendly and freez it self when log is opened..

Well spotted! That's probably an error from my part :88)


Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2328555)
What changelog?:hmm2:

TWoS' changelog of course. I remember having seen one covering previous versionss before the last release, but I don't see it anymore. I don't rememeber if it wast at post #1 or elsewhere though.

vdr1981 07-14-15 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gap (Post 2328565)
Well spotted! That's probably an error from my part :88)

I don't think so, default DefSide.cfg have the same "Side=0" entire for mentioned date...



Quote:

Originally Posted by gap (Post 2328565)
TWoS' changelog of course. I remember having seen one covering previous versionss before the last release, but I don't see it anymore. I don't rememeber if it wast at post #1 or elsewhere though.

You saw it in patches...All previous changelogs are withing the madpack now...:yep:

gap 07-14-15 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2328567)
I don't think so, default DefSide.cfg have the same "Side=0" entire for mentioned date...

Then, it was our community mistake not to rectify this stock error earlier :O:
Have you tried sinking a German ship after changing tha 0 to 1?

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2328567)
You saw it in patches...All previous changelogs are withing the madpack now...:yep:

I see, thanks :salute:


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