This is a good point. I had not considered the initial stages of that type of software release. Eagle Dynamics seems to have built up a base of capital prior to let DCS have a free base game. Then, I wouldn't advocate a free base game with the users paying only for additional modules if it meant microtransactions and ads and all that stuff to make a free base game feasible initially. Perhaps a hybrid between the DCS model and the traditional model - a (somewhat reduced) charge for the base game and then pay money for additional modules. Of course, I'm not here to tell you what the best financial model is for your game, I just find it a very interesting topic in terms of what it takes for sims to survive in this modern video game era.

It is interesting, this is actually the whole point of this thread isn't it?

Let me tell you something you already know...


Every single member of this site and that includes you and me knows what the features of MNW or any equivalent project should be. Maybe with some fluctuations or special preferences but we all do.
The big question is: "Should I spend the money to build it?"


You are on the right track of saying what is in your mind, no problem there.


Modern video game era!


I have no actual proof on what I am going to say. It is my personal opinion.
Simulators do not belong in the same market group as the rest video games.
A simulator designer/developer is addressed to a specific target group of educated individuals regarding a very specific topic and he is responsible to make this product last long.
The only common thing between video games and simulators is that they are sold by the same channel of distributors and that is something that comes from the 80s.
Back then the whole pc gaming community was assembled by those educated individuals (hobbyists) were today it is mutated into a retail market.


We have to be careful not to fall into the retail net.

In today's rather tough market and job environment, there is IMHO only one way to fulfill someone's desire and dream to create simulation seriously reflecting any complex modern technology.

And this way is to do it on your own and in your free time!

Short of inheritance or winning the lottery to prop your and your family financial needs try to get a steady and possibly not too demanding day job and without any extra external pressure from anybody but yourself start building your dream. I know this from my personal experience, that this way is the safest recipe for success and it works in most situations and circumstances.

It is true that it may take much longer, but it can be done without risk to anyone yourself including. It will work unless YOU change your mind or lose YOUR enthusiasm for the Project and then it is not too much of a big loss ... except for your own free time.

So Good Luck! :Kaleun_Cheers:

Yesterday video gamers are tomorrows simmers.

Your transmission is 59 to us. Thanks.



Agreed, that is why:


a. simulators are not expandable games that are forgotten after a season if they do not become a profitable brand with one or another way.


b. AAA graphics maybe don't mean much on seasoned players like you guys but it will attract the attention of a target group which might be interested in getting a closer look on a submarine (e.g. like when I was a kid and first saw Silent Service) and maybe some of them will find the genre attractive.

Good simulators are like precious pieces of art. Not always appreciated by contemporaries, but usually remembered and admired in the years which follow.

Good graphics, on the other hand, are like a beauty. They seldom fail to attract immediately, however, one may get used to them rather fast and they never get better with age!

You may pretty it up! I like having stuff to look at :D

If you're going to do coop-multi-station type stuff, you should build a lobby system like the old MPLAYER, just a simple lobby so everyone interested in playing can hobnob.

The old SFC series when it ran on MPLAYER was great for that. I wouldn't have ever been involved in that game if not for the great online community, and anything to do with SubSim.com usually has some great people to hang around.

Gives niche games legs when there is a community that comes along with it.

Just a thought.

Yea that's the idea and we should call it "Officers Lounge" or something... Optimally the chat would be at sync with a specific Discord channel but that is only a thought for the moment.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is accessibility.

The classic sub sims had an incredible depth of systems and tactics and assumed you, the player, were already familiar with them when you started. If not, go dig out the 400-page manual and spend the afternoon reading. Needless to say, these sims were not very welcoming to new players.

Doing one's own research should not be discouraged, of course, but new players should be able to learn the basics without resorting to manuals or Youtube tutorials. DCS has interactive tutorials for every aircraft so that players can learn how things work by doing it; anyone curious about why things work can take a peek in the manuals.

Long story short, a new sim like MNW is a great opportunity to grow our community but it will be more successful if it's approachable to people new to the genre. And making it accessible does not mean watering it down for the pros.

We have arranged a small campaign with a series of missions that will make the proper introductions to new players on every and each station of the sub. It will be interactive and within a story line.

But manuals cannot be avoided.


Thanks for mentioning :up:

If the sim will be like Dangerous Waters style, with all the complexity and realism, with MP, multistation, etc, you can count with my help! :Kaleun_Cheers: ah, please include at least one russian submarine/destroyer/corvette in the red side.

Will do thanks! Akula will follow as a DLC if everything goes as planned :D

Great, I have a lot of interested friends. They're not actually playing DW due to the old graphics, and the mess for the MP connection via Tunngle, that's it!

Don't worry we got you covered on both :up: