No my friend, the United States offres anyone that will join regardless of what the country your from, a future they lie about . And if we fight Russia we will get our ass kicked because our leaders sons and daughters can not lead us.

I take it that after the last four years of succesful desinformation and diversion of "the west" (easily to be followed in this very forum), Putin smells an easy victory.
Russia has been very strong in its propaganda efforts in the last years, launching a gigantic medial campaign on "social media" and its own state-controlled agencies.

The NATO manoeuver being held right now in the Ukraine "provoked" Russia? At least the russian "news agency" Sputnik sees it that way (snanews is Sputnik=propaganda)
Translation by Google:
“Defender Europe 2021”: How NATO wages war “against nobody” with Ukraine and Georgia

https://www.army.mil/article/244260/..._dozen_nations

In a response to one of my comment Skybird wrote

"China does not need any encouraging example to do like it wants to do, it just does them when it sees fit"

This may be the truth, however they(China)is calculating what kind response they may get if they attack Taiwan.

When they see USA is nothing more than a roaring toothless lion-they will not only engage Taiwan but do more in the south Chinese sea.

Back to original discussion-Ukraine once again.

Markus

Ukraine wants to speed up Nato membership
 

What and bring NATO a step closer to military conflict?

Might as well admit them into the EU as well....as a net receiver.

They already are, via the gas transit fees. Plus they have stolen and sometimes still steal from the transited gas volumes.

Its an incapable, corrupt criminal place run by oligarchs and criminal gangs. Only a fool wants a messy country like this into NATO or the EU. EU rules imply that a country has to do its homework FIRST and then can ask for membership (with the answer free to be either yes or no), it is not that membership is seen as a tool to make the homework for that country. We have already severla countries that were let in against the rules, and it did not go well so far. Plus the financial burden they are.

Of course many western politicians will completely ignore this, both in Brussels and Washington. Its just that the Russian will not comply. Want to see a huge flareup of the war between Ukraine and Russia, and a multiplication of military engagement by Russia? Move to get Ukraine into NATO, and there you are. Lets face it, Moscow will not accept NATO troops close to Sewastopol and the Krimean. They will react, and if needed with force. Would Washinton accept Russian or Chinese forces close to its main ports and major air bases in America? No. Not even further away in Canda or Mexico. American military action would be unavoidable.

Maybe this goes a bit beyond economics.

^ ... and deep into geopolitical and military key interests.

joining NATO would be a major propaganda coup for Ukraine since it would put NATO firmly on its side in the conflict, but for NATO, it would be a lose/lose proposition:

1. under art. 5, NATO has to help any member under attack. Does that mean that NATO would be in a state of war with Russia has soon as Ukraine joins? Can NATO be at war with Russia in Ukraine , but be at peace in the rest of the world? How do we keep this from spinning into World War 3?

2. Presumably, they could carve the present occupation from art. 5 obligations, but would that in effect mean that NATO is recognizing and legitimising the Russian occupation in Donbass/Crimea?

3. would NATO troops be on the frontline in the Donbass? What happens when NATO troops are killed or wounded, will NATO retaliate? How far will NATO go, will it launch an offensive to reconquer Donbas? How will Russia react? How do you keep this thing from spinning out into World War 3?

4. What if Ukraine joins, but NATO does nothing but offer moral support. This will show the alliance is a useless "paper tiger". How will say the Baltic States stand up to future Russian pressure knowing the art. 5 garantee is not absolute?

No matter how you game it out, Ukraine joining NATO in the current situation is a potential disaster.

If i follow what is read and spread, and what i read here i take it the Ukraine will soon be russian again, and all of it.

I don't see it that way, there does not seem to be much appetite in Russia to expand beyond Crimea and Donbas.

The Moscow Times which is the only real objective independent english language publication on Russia IMHO has had many articles lately on the buildup of Russian forces:

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/...ting-up-a73457

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/...-tactic-a73461

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/...nto-war-a73480

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/...or-says-a73500

The main takeaway is that the buildup is probably not a sign of an imminent invasion.

Maybe Putin just wants to test Biden, anyway there's not much to counter with, even with the NATO.
Or a new Truman doctrine like "Not further." :hmmm:

The question is whether the Russian would let it come so far as to the Ukraine accomplishing NATO membership. I think they will escalate before the ink gets put on the treaty. At least that is what I would do if I were the Russians.



But maybe they are more pacifist than I am. :D


A "NATOnised" Ukraine imo is unacceptable for them. Not after their experiences with the Eastern enlargmentent of NATO 20 years ago. Their older militaries are still traumatized by those events, and I think Putin did not like it either.



Anyhow, a new member to any kind of alliance should be a contribution to that alliance, not just a burden and risk with no profits to be gained. Adding weak members do not make an alliance stronger, but weakens it. We can see that clearly in the current status of NATO. Increasing a group of weak members with another weak member just - increases the number of weak members. And we already have problems enough (that at least the WEuropeans for themselves are unable and/or unwilling to solve).

I seriously doubt NATO will allow Ukraine to join for the reasons I laid out, but Ukraine does not have to join anyway. NATO is already providing a lot of support in terms of training and military equipment. Several NATO countries have troops in Ukraine for the training mission.

Ukraine armed forces are already much more capable than in 2014-15. Back then, UKR had a lot of obsolete equipment, poorly trained troops, corrupt officer corps. Now, they have a lot of brand new U.S. vehicles, supplies, equipment, many of their troops have received extended NATO training. For example, Ukraine now has several hundred Javelins ATGMs which would put a serious dent in Russian forces should they launch an offensive.