They named a Submarine after Trafalgar.

:O:

Currently reading Les Miserables by Hugo as well as Machiavelli's Prince and Discourses on Livy simultaneously. (I'm in a rhetorical criticism class). :wah:

Heh, heh. But they never named a submarine after the book...

Also two First Rate wooden Ships of the Line, a Victorian era ironclad battleship and a WW2 Battle Class destroyer were not named for the book either.

From Leningrad to Berlin

Dutch Volunteers in the service of the German Waffen SS 1941-1945

By Perry Pierik

Yeah, read that book years back & it was an eye-opener. My perception is that the American superiority is more in the system more than the individual boats. Leaving aside the vague issue of training, SOSUS turned the undersea fight into one b/w a side with "AWACS" and a side without.

Another factor is that the Americans started really deploying rafting in their Permits in 1960 or so, while the Soviets started in 1972. That ensured a large glut of noisy Soviet submarines, and that pulled up the "national average" (and thus the American perception) of Soviet submarine noise and vice versa.

A third factor is that the Soviets seem to know when they are losing more than the West gives them credit for. In Blind Man's Bluff, there is a section where the Soviet Admiral let slip he was near USS Dace in a Victor I. Sontag tries to make it an issue of who trailed whom, and of course the American, which had an acoustical superiority, and who presumably waited in an ambush position, had the edge in that fight.

IMO, Sontag misses the point, which is that the Soviets had managed a counterdetection, even if it was late, and the Americans don't seem to know about it. Winning is better than losing, but in ASW warfare, managing to know when you've lost is a massive step up from not knowing, and not realizing that your victory is not quite complete is in itself a fair loss.

I really enjoyed Les Miserables, good book. Jean Valjean, great protaganist, great story.

Just finished Girl with the Dragon Tatoo and Girl Who Played with Fire.

I've just started reading Robert Mason's Chickenhawk. First read it about 22 years ago and thought it was possibly one of the best books I'd ever read - well 22 years later I'm still thinking that!

http://www.waterstones.com/wat/image...0552124195.jpg

Indy,

If you had to choose between these two books, which would you go with?

Actually, without trying to go too far OT, I would think, in a non-shooting war, Losing and knowing it is a far greater victory than winning and not knowing they know too.

Winning without thinking they know about it leads to complacency in tech development, while knowing you just got goosed forces you to strive ahead in new technology.

I'm one of these guys who read several books at one - depending on my mood. Currently I am reading:

- Terry Pratchett: Moving Pictures
- Karl Alman: Graue Wölfe in Blauer See (Grey Wolfes in the blue ocean) - about the u-boats in the Mediterranian Sea
- Jared Diamond: Collapse
- Generation Kill by Evan Wright

the first 3 in German, the last one in English

I wish I'd paid much, much, more attention at school with regard to learning German. The only thing I can remember properly, and this goes for French also, is that the public transport infrastructure must be fantastic - as the question: Wo ist der Bahnhof/Bushaltestelle? (Where is the train station/bus stop?)

The answers were always: Der Bahnhof/Bushaltestelle ist die zweite/dritte Straße rechts/links. (The train station/bus stop is the second/third road on the right/left.)

A bus stop or train station always within three streets!!! :hmmm:

Anyway, back to books - still reading Chickenhawk :yep:

Didn't the Soviets has a SOSUS system it was called Caesar? I'm sort of confused on that since there was an American sonar program called Caesar too. I know they have ocean floor sensors I'm just not 100% sure what its called.

Perhaps this is what your looking for TLAM, I just googled it after reading your post, I think its a doc for the old "Harpoon" game. not sure if its what the Russian sosus was really called.

http://www.tacopshq.com/MBX/Globalth...DIA-SOSUS.html


Say, do you know the difference between these two books

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/159...pf_rd_i=507846
Naval Institute Guide to Combat Fleets of the World: Their Ships, Aircraft, and Systems Eric Wertheim


and

http://www.amazon.com/Naval-Institut...d=ZHFYMC7LIF3Z

The Naval Institute Guide to Combat Fleets of the World 2002-2003: Their Ships, Aircraft, and Systems A. D., III Baker


Im confused because they both seem to be one and the same book, but with different authors. The one by Eric Wertheim is also more current (2007). Perhaps it is the same project but maybe A.D. III Baker no longer is writing ?? So Wertheim took over the helm, so to speak. Just a guess..

The Last Patrol
 

I imagine that this title has appeared on these pages before but it is definately worth a reminder.

The Last Patrol by Harry Holmes details the loss of every American submarine in WW2 and should be a must for every sub simmer's library.

http://www.amazon.com/Last-Patrol-Ha...0115065&sr=8-1

Was reaquainted with The Last Patrol recently when SWMBO actually asked a submarine related questions pertaining to some romance novel she was reading and I had to go and look up an answer.

I guess Eric Werheim is the new author they are using. The Red cover book is a newer edition. ;)

... but damn those are expensive... :doh:

Anyways I take some of the stuff written for Harpoon with a grain of salt, not that its inaccurate but that it could be altered for "mass distribution", however there are times that its the only stuff written on something.