No, the REALLY amazing thing was I made it back to port and they told me that the ship was 100% with no damage at all. :hmmm:
No wonder it was able to hold up that deep. |
@ Zosimus,
Good story and well told! I enjoyed reading that.:up: |
Hello my fellow Kaleuns.
Just returned to Lorient on April 27th 1943 hoping to upgrade my IXC to a IXD2 and its not on the list of available boats. :confused: All help appreciated as I am a bit gutted to say the least. Riccardo U-501 2nd Flotilla Lorient |
"So, Herr Kapitanleutnant, Admiral Donitz begins as he hands me a snifter of brandy, "Tell me again how you managed to escape from that tanker convoy".
I accept the glass, take a swirl and a sniff, before gulping a shot, the liquid warming my throat on its way down. When I am able to again, I reply, "Well sir, after the fletcher destroyer lost interest in killing us, and sped back to the head of the convoy, we let our speed fall off a bit and surfaced the boat." "We took up a position on the trailing T3 tanker and as the weather was calm enough, began to lob 88mm HE shells at him". "We managed to score a few hits at 5km distant, I put my gun crew down for the iron cross 2nd class for this actually, and caused enough damage to slow him down". The Admiral listens intently while I continue. "By then, the rest of the tankers got wise to our location, and started firing back. Swine. Anyway, we were forced to dive again as one of the flanking destroyers came back in our direction". "We took some damage from depth charges, but our repair teams were more than up to it, and after about 15 more minutes of attack, the destroyer broke off and returned to his flank position". I take another gulp of brandy. The Admiral bids me to continue. "Now that we slowed down a heavy tanker, he was more readily sunk by one of our two remaining torpedos. Seeing that the coast was still clear, I gave the order to surface and man the deck guns again." "That was reckless, Herr Kaleun" "Reckless, yes sir, but rewarding." A raised eyebrow from the Admiral. "The exploding tanker made the rest of the convoy tack in a new direction, and in so doing, opened up their flank, giving my elite gunnery crew the best broadside they could hope for. With about 10 shells, they managed to pound a small tanker into submission. They scored a lucky hit, and the whole thing went up like doomsday." "I had to give the order to crash dive again, because both remaining escorts detected us again". "We really must have been making them look bad, because this time, they were a little more aggressive in hunting us." "We snaked a torpedo down the throat of one of the incoming escorts, and took him out, but now we were in serious trouble, because all the ammo we had left was for surface firing". "Yes Herr Kaleun, the dockworkers were rather surprised at the condition your hull was in after you got back, I read that in your original report, but please, continue". I swallow the last of my drink and set the empty glass down on the nearest end table. Next to my white command cap. Looking at it, sitting there on the table, I am taken back to our harrowing underwater escape... "Well sir, We just managed to get under when the first 4 bombs went off. Right away the empty stern tube was put out of action, the tube door jammed in the closed position. That wasn't so bad. The port compressor was disabled, but repairable. I ordered full ahead, and down to 90m. He seeded the area with a few more charges, but they all missed. We dropped a decoy and went to silent running, after another series of blasts. He took the bait for about 10 minutes, and we managed to sneak off in the opposite direction, but as they turned around, their hydrophone operator found us again. We took 7 or 8 more charges, and at least one of them took out our forward battery. Left us with 4 functioning cells, barely enough power to run the lights in the forward compartment. Our pumps and pressure hull remained strong enough and there were no serious breaches reported, so it must have been a shock wave that shattered the batteries. I have also put in for some extra lime wash sir, we used quite a bit. 2 of my damage control team were overcome with chlorine gas and had to have absolute rest. I also ordered the potash cartridges for the bow compartment crew, but fortunately we were able to contain the damage. We played duck and dodge, cat and mouse (don't be the mouse!), and after 4 hours of bombing, gave the enemy the slip. When the coast was clear, we surfaced and ventilated the boat. The rest is in my report sir." "Well Herr Kaleun, a very interesting tale", the Admiral begins, "but I must caution you to restrain yourself from these pirate games you keep playing. I'm not sure if you noticed this, but our fortunes are not going as well as the leader has planned. We will continue to do our utmost for final victory, but a U-boat and her crew has become a very choice target for the enemy these days. Please exercise more care when engaging convoys." "Now, as to the matter of your crew, yes, I have approved of their medals, as well as your flak officer, for shooting down that wellington bomber." He pauses then says "And we are sending you on a torpedo course, we have some new developments in the field and I need my best COs trained in their use. If successful, we can turn the tide back in our favor." "You will depart tomorrow, while your boat, U-110 is being overhauled. It's a 3 week course and when you get back, we will have your new orders then." I collect my command cap, and the Admiral dismisses me informally. After I leave his office, I mull the situation over. It's probably my tonnage list that keeps all of his concern from showing, but I can see that he is no longer the Lion, he's changed now, strained... |
the last voyage of U-110, part 1.
From my sitting location on the chief's bunk in the officer's mess, I angle my head out for a look around at the shambles the radio shack and sound room are in. The stewards did a good job of cleaning up our off duty area, but work still continues on our electrical equipment. We really got it handed to us this time... With me in the OM is my 2WO and my Chief engineer. He is standing slightly in the 'corridor', a look as grim as the beard on his face, holding a clipboard with an itemised list of our current damage (and hopefully news on completed repairs). The 2WO is seated at the table with his back against the fwd bulkhead, looking moodily into his cold coffee (It's all we've got left). We suffered casualties this go around as well. Looking at him, I can read his thoughts, and it takes me back to when our 1WO was on the bridge directing the gunnery crew, and our flak batteries were prepped for firing, when the freighters we came across, damaged though they were, returned fire. We took 3 direct hits from the 2 heavy cargo ships at less than 1km distant. In a flash, the after deck was destroyed and our flak crew killed by shrapnel. The next hit came at the conning tower, punching a neat entrance hole on the port side. The exit hole was another story and the mangled body of my 1WO lay slumped on the deck beside the attack periscope mast. Our electrics took a hit as well and we lost our radio antenna and radar warning device. Our 2WO took over in a hurry and despite great personal danger, and the horrible sight of the bloody command deck, was able to direct the gunnery crew to quickly finish the two freighters. We claimed both for a total of 13,600 tons and left the area. We buried our three dead crew at sea and I promoted my ensign to take over for the missing officer. All that occurred on day 5 of our outbound journey, destination, BE18. We never made it. We departed from our new base in Norway, home of the 11th fleet, April 30 1944 on our 40th patrol. By May 5th, our 3 crew were dead and my boat, U-110, badly damaged. But the patrol is nowhere near to complete, so we press on. Those two freighters soaked up too many of our torpedos (4 each plus 1 that missed because of evasive action) so we surfaced to finish them off. One of them (the closest one) played dead, even taking a few hits, until we were in their sweet spot, and that's when the carnage began. The Admiral is still going to be mildly crazy about all this when HQ finds out... We worked like mad in steadily swelling seas to get the external reload out of the forward locker and in just under an hour, had it safely aboard, loaded in tube 4. We dove to 30m and I put my radio crew to work crafting a new aerial for both our radar warning and transmission antenna. By May 8th we came across a nosy destroyer. Optimal firing position for the seeker loaded in tube 5. Fired tube 5 from 1400m away and hit, Destroyer sunk for 1350tons. The next morning, things had calmed a bit, so we surfaced and started making some head way. But within 10 minutes, the weather fell off so we dove again to ride it out. About 30 minutes later, our sound guy picked up a steamer heading in our direction. Possibly the destroyer we sank was to rendez-vous with the merchant, and escort him to safety, but we'll never know. Bad weather, high seas and thick fog make attack difficult. Missed our chance with the forward tubes, line up a shot with the aft tube and hit. No serious damage done and rather than waste more of our dwindling ammunition, I break off the attack, and let him go. This is really wrecking our morale. May 11th was the worst day. We still hadn't made it into our patrol billet. Aircraft appear more often now. Although our boat has been outfitted with a snorkel about 3 patrols ago, the allied fliers still seem intent upon attacking, yes, even the snort mast. So we can only really use it at night, which is doubling our trip time. While we still have a decent quantity of AA ammo and deck gun shells, we have few torpedos. With all the failures, misses, and sheer number pumped into one target to seemingly no effect, we have only 4 left. And one of them isn't even loaded into anything yet, it's still in the aft external locker. And then it happened. The nightmare scenario that every Captain dreads. We came across a lone Liberty cargo ship. Heavily armed too, I thought. Grid AL01. Sky and seas, light fog, raising, wind speed 12 m/s. At periscope depth. Sighting on the target and range. Sitting at the attack scope, I take stock. Tube 1 loaded with T3, tube 2, empty and will remain so. Tube 3 loaded with T4 seeker. Tube 4 loaded with T3. Tube 5 empty, but if you're ballsy enough you might be able to surface to get the exterior spare...(given this mission history, you'll probably have to.) I really want to use my remaining seeker on a destroyer, but if I get the boat close enough, maybe we can hamstring this merchant with it, and then finish him off at our leisure. Then I see he tacks in a different direction, heading more towards us now. We are coming in from starboard, a nice bow-on shot. Open tube 1, open tube 4, stand by for salvo. I pass the orders on to the weapons officer and when the time is right, release the hounds... At 900m from the target, the first torpedo detonates prematurely. Sigh. Oh, and of course the enemy watch saw that. A nice big fountain just for them. He's taking evasive action, but... he's tacking the wrong way! He's actually opening his flank, which predictably, allows our torpedo to strike. A hit!. Wait, how deep was that set? Not deep enough. It punched a hole in the side, slightly above and below the waterline, but far enough forward that his pumps and damage control parties could easily cope. Remember that seeker? I guess I will use it after all. I can't let this ship get away, I have to avenge my dead crew with some kind of success here. With careful plotting we take up position into the wake of the passing Liberty. Letting him get to 700m we let fly with the seeker from tube 3. Threading the eye of the needle.... |
part 2
the last voyage of U-110, part 2
...And the merchant takes it on the port flank, aft. Bad news Herr Kaleun, you didn't do as much damage as you had hoped. However, you did wreck his rudder and damage his engines. Normally a ship would stop dead with that kind of damage, but he is still managing to make 3 knots headway. It's unbelievable. It's like I'm not supposed to be attacking these ships and that's why they're almost indestructible. Whatever alloy or welding process they're using we NEED to get some of that! I have one torpedo left, and it's outside. I really did not want to give this order, not now, but I have no. choice. left. "Torpedo loading crew, stand by for surface action" comes the order. That means get your slickers on boys, because it's wet out there. And soakers are the order of the day. "Raise the snorkel, let's get some distance on this thing, we have to get into position to use the aft torpedo." I tell the Chief Engineer. After about 30 minutes of careful maneuvering we get into a position where I feel safe enough to give the order to surface. Once the decks are clear and the tower hatch opened, the torpedo crew goes to work on the after deck, to extract and load our last chance at victory. I am sitting at the attack scope, even though we are surfaced, keeping watch over our latest victim. We have him stern on when I give the incredible order "Both engines, full speed, reverse". The liberty is struggling in the swelling seas, a heavy trail of foamy water churned up by her desperately turning propeller. For all that, she is still able to make a pathetically tired 3 knots, and we, stuck in reverse can make maybe 4, so this rate should give us enough time to extract and load our last fish and hopefully, the skies will remain clear. That is, free of aircraft, for now would be a very good time for them to score a U-boat kill. The weapons officer (our former Ensign) tells me it will take about 40 minutes to complete the loading. I accept his report with stoicism, as I know that for at least 45 minutes, we are totally vulnerable. Unable to leave my post at the attack periscope, I become extremely uncomfortable, as if my saddle has come to life beneath me. I fidget constantly. I check my watch for the 37th time in two minutes, as if I could somehow speed up the dial by looking at it. "C'mon, C'mon.." I mutter under my breath. And then it happened. Between looking forward at the status of the limping liberty, and looking aft, at the crew working furiously to load our last torpedo, I caught sight of 4 incoming short sunderlands. I felt my heart run out the hole in my willy. I checked my watch, and quickly conferred with the Ensign. Still 2:30 to go and we will be loaded. If we dive now, we will have to start this whole process all over again. I think, this is going to get ugly... I tell the Chief "Lower the snorkel, we are going to have to dive quickly and soon and I don't want anything tall for them to aim at". "Aye sir". We are in the act of lowering the snort mast when all of a sudden, my world is tipped sideways. A violent jarring motion to the left. I was at the attack scope when my torpedo mechanic gives me a 'thumbs up' to indicate they had loaded the torpedo into the boat and are sealing the after loading hatch now, I swung the scope around to the front, and that's when the shock came. All at once, the deck gun was blown away and the foreship turned into an obstacle course of jagged metal. The forward jumping wire was next to go, it simply fell off with the previous damage. Our electricians and radio mates were able to restore our communications antenna, but the radar warning device was still kaput. We had no adequate warning of the approach. A textbook u-boat bombing run, coastal command should be proud. The snorkel got jammed as we were lowering it, and is now stuck at a 45 degree angle. That's not good. Not good at all. The torpedo crew ran hell for leather to the conning tower hatch and as fast as they dared, dropped back into the boat. They cleared the decks in record time, mostly because there was no aft railing to impede their progress. The next shock came and this time the port diesel was ripped off its support bed. The drive shaft was bent savagely not far out from the flange, but the clutch for the electric drive was undamaged. The engineering team cut out the bent part so the drive shaft could turn for underwater travel. Assuming, of course we survive this surface bombing. "Is the bridge cleared"? I ask. "Jawohl, Herr Kaleun". comes the reply. "Take us to periscope depth". The chief uses all of his training and skill to dive the boat while we are in reverse, and we are just under the waves when the next shock hits us on the starboard side, aft, and staves in the pressure hull. The shockwave turns our aft quarters and galley into a disaster area, but the hull itself shows no breaches. All at once, a hissing from under the floor plates in the POs quarters. Someone says "not again". The Chief says "neutralize with limewash", and soon the hissing stops. Got it in record time this time. "Is the aft tube still usable"? I ask. "yes sir, no damage". I put my eye back to the lens and see the limping liberty trying to gamely gain ground but with a damaged rudder they're mostly going in circles. It seems they can go straight ahead and right, but left turns are out. As such, our last fish in tube 5 is ready to go. "Tube 5, fire"! The boat shudders as it is relieved of its last burden and 2 minutes tick off the clock before we score another hit. As soon as I am satisfied we have sunk this vessel, I lower the scope and return to the command room, itself a disaster area, now that I notice it, and take stock of our situation. Unfortunately my sound guy was unable to confirm a sinking, so I ordred us to forward drive again and down to 30 m to find calmer waters in which to start making repairs. We managed to avoid the aircraft and they never did resume their attacks against us. We did not sink the damaged liberty and it managed to slink away from us. It was right around then I decided to set course back to Norway and report. And probably be demoted for my failures on this mission. I'm not sure my tonnage count will help this time. After 3 days we were just south of the Faeroe islands and surfaced to send a message to HQ, informing them of our status. Within an hour, we received a reply, in the form of 4 depth charges from a sunderland. Our rickety old boat survived the crash dive and 70m depth (not sure that it would), and we were forced to stay under for a few hours. We surfaced and tried to get a response, but HQ did not reply, so we sent another message, and, less than an hour later, the same thing happened. After surviving the latest crash dive, damage to our radio and hydrophones, I decided to just stay under until we got closer to Norway. They will see what happened when they see the boat. May 13th, 1944, we are just outside of Norway, about to surface and sail through the fjords to our base in Bergen. I am in the officer's mess with my 2WO and chief engineer. The electricians and radio mates are trying to restore our yet again damaged radio set. Not sure if the repairs will work this time. My chief is looking pretty grim. He's had a few days to assess the total damage to the boat and from the look on his face I can see I am not going to like what's coming. My 2WO is kind of a 'downer-debbie' but I don't really blame him. I shudder with the memory. Leaning back on his bunk with my back against the woodwork, I ask the inevitable question. "Well chief, how bad is it"? |
I keep trying to raid Gibralter but I allways run out of fish before I get there. :nope:
|
last voyage, part 3.
"Well sir, its bad, very very bad. We're crawling back to base on knees and nipples if you don't think that's serious enough, but at very rough estimate, at least 73% of the boat has been damaged or destroyed."
I wince. The 2WO winces too. "Go on" I bid him. He looks down at his clipboard, lifts the top page, reads quickly from the second page, then lowers the first page again. "Uh.." he gets no farther as I hold my hand up to stop him. "Hang on a sec, I have a feeling I'm going to need this". I say as I reach for my 'victory bottle'. Beck's beer. Great stuff. Was supposed to save it for celebration but we don't have much left to cheer about. I crack the top and take a long pull. Wiping my mouth on my sleeve I bid my engineer to continue. I get a funny look from the chief. "What, you prefer that I drink from it while sitting at the attack scope like the time we took on that tanker convoy"? "If you'll let me continue" he complains. I sit back again, "go ahead". "I'll start from aft and work my way forward, I think the worst of the internal damage was done aft of the control room anyway." "The stern compartment containing the E-motors and compressors escaped serious damage. Our decoy launcher was unaffected. The Port E-motor and drive clutch remained operable, despite the severe damage to the port diesel engine in the next compartment." He pauses reads a bit, then continues. "Our crew managed to maintain the underwater drive, but the port diesel was completely out of action. We were able to improvise a connection with the port compressor which would have been the only back up to our buggy main pump, which I will get to." "But there's no way you can restore the surface drive"? "No sir, the damage is too severe. In fact, we now make better knots underwater than above." "What else?" "The port side lubricating oil supply tanks, collecting tanks, and dirty oil tank were all cracked and leaky and that contributed to the sludgy water that collected in the bilge." "The fuel tanks remained tight and despite the damage, operation of the starboard diesel was not affected." "Moving forward, into the POs mess". Yes, it really was. "Battery number two was damaged, and its connection was lost. Some of the cells were cracked, but only 2 or 3 and we were able to contain the damage quickly. When we took a closer look we realized that only a few bridging bars would be needed to restore power." "The refrigeration plant was destroyed completely but the high pressure air bank cell #3 was, thankfully, unharmed." I butt in, "The same thing cannot be said for the toilet door." "No sir, it was blown right off its hinges. I mean, the toilet does still work, it's just that, you can't close the door anymore, that's all". "Well, that and the officer's billet in the after quarters was totally destroyed as well. The poor guy's bunk all blasted to scrap. It would be like lying down on a bed of nails." Yeah, I remember, things were pretty unpleasant back there for a while. "The galley was completely destroyed as well, that's why we've all been drinking cold coffee and tea, and eating cold sandwiches or canned food. We gotta use this stuff up." I ask then, "What else is there"? "Well, the exterior damage to the forward deck and the missing surface weapons you already know about so we'll skip that part, I guess now we come to the control room." "Except for a lot of broken glass and piping, the most serious problem is the main pump. It's working alright for now, but if it takes just one more hit that will be the last. We have our jerry-rigged ballast pump on stand by, but it will make more than enough racket to give us away, stealth will not be possible. So let's just hope that we're near enough to Norway that it won't matter." "Oh and one last thing..." "What's that"? "The charts table drawer is squeaky". A long look from me. "I think it came off its roller." "Is that really pertinent to anything"? "You asked for a complete list of the damages on board, I thought, now's the time"... After gulping down the last of my beer, I head into the control room to begin the surface operation. At this rate, we should be back in Bergen in about 20 minutes. It should be dark enough by then that the night will conceal the deplorable state my ship is in. Just wait until they see me now... |
Finally managed to raid St Helena on the way to GR 91 and it was as good as i had heard. Two troop ships, a large tanker and about 8 smaller vessels. Eliminated a Q/R class about 115 km NNW then took out two ASW trawlers while two other DD's beached themselves. Sank the big stuff, went East to shell the beached destroyer, shredded a fishing boat with my flakvierling then returned to shell the smaller stuff. Milch cow then home i thought...
Even from 3000 metres North of the harbour it was like i'd opened fire on one or two Revenge class. Return fire from the merchant ships had to be seen to be believed. I was dead before my props were underwater. Have to keep reminding myself its not 1940 anymore.... It was 1943 May 22nd. P.S. Does anybody else find the daily radio reports of lost fellow Kaleuns quite depressing? P.P.S Is Cape Town/Durban worth the trip(1943)? KptLt Riccardo U-501 |
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PS - Yes, very much so. PPS - yes, they don't expect to see U-boats that far south. A lot (not all) of shipping goes unescorted and harbours undefended, it might be worth a look-see. |
last voyage, part 4.
My navigation officer sounds the depths at regular intervals until there is just enough water under the keel to operate at periscope depth.
I raise the sky scope from the control room, because I am too lazy to climb the ladder to the attack scope. Besides, I was using the attack scope when the depth charge that destroyed our forward deck and cannon went off, and the shock wave shivered the glass. It's like looking through a mass of spider webbing, so I'll just use the one that's clear. I spin the lens all around looking for aircraft and when I see the skies are empty but for the moon and stars, I lower the scope and begin the surfacing action. "Auftauchen". I order. U-110 struggles to the surface. "Blow main ballast by diesel, start the starboard engine" I order. Once the pressure is equalized, I finally drag my lazy ass up the ladder to the bridge, to open the the hatch. My 2WO follows behind, the Chief stays at his station in the control room. At this moment, I prefer to keep few men on the bridge, mostly because of its condition. As our port engine is not worthy of the name, it takes us three times longer than normal to wend our way through the fjords to the submarine pens at Bergen. When we are about 20 minutes travel time from the base, we transmit a short wave signal, informing them of our impending arrival. And nothing else. We get a reply telling us we are cleared for arrival at sub-pen #1. And nothing else. At a little after 0100 hrs, with the cover of early morning darkness, which is not much because of the season and latitude, U-110 glides up to and enters submarine pen 1. Any longer and the whole of Norway could see how badly damaged we were. How embarrassing. "All stop". During the usual docking ritual, one of the workers looks up in slack jawed amazement at the shredded foreship and asks "What happened to your deck gun?" "Idiot". Out of the corner of my mouth I mutter to the 2WO on my left. To the worker I shout back "Take a guess!" I instruct the 2WO that I am going ashore first, to hand in my reports, but I want the officers and crew to take their personal belongings from the ship, and muster in the parade square in 20 minutes. I'm barely back on dry land when one of the base staff approaches and asks if I've heard the news. "I just got back in a leaky boat with a busted leg and a dodgy radio, what kind of news would I have heard?" The officer ignores my tone. "Two of the latest class U-boat, the type twenty-ones, have arrived from Germany. They docked the day before yesterday and rumor has it, one of the Captains on roster here, at this base, will be given command of one of them." "Well that probably won't be me. Have you seen the condition of U-110? It's more scrapheap than submarine." "Yeah well, the base commander wants to see you in his office right away." I think to myself 'I'll just bet he does'. As I work my way towards the base compound and the offices of the CNC U-boats Norway, I rehearse the things I plan to say. The little demon on my left shoulder teases "you are in a lot of trouble this time captain. Your 1WO and flak crew, all highly decorated I might add, are dead because of your bravado. Your boat is a virtual write off at a time when what we need are *more* ships at sea, and you brought back a pittance in tonnage. Yeah, you'll be lucky if they don't execute you for this." The little angel on my right shoulder is a bit more reassuring with "Now come on, you have sunk over one million GWTs for the reich, so far, and you are one of the most decorated captains with the most decorated and senior crews in the fleet, against all possible odds, I might add. It's doubtful they will shoot you as soon as you step through the door. They'll probably wait for you to close it first." Finally I arrive at the Commander's office. I knock on the door and am granted permission to enter. I close the door behind me and take a quick look around the room. With his high backed chair facing away from me, I see the base commander seated, looking out the windows. I brace at attention and salute "Kapitanleutnant Konig reporting as requested, Sir." "It wasn't a request." No, it never is. Suddenly, he swivels his chair around and I hear the report of a loud bang. I look and see that the commander is holding...a champagne bottle. He produces two long stemmed glasses from beneath the desk and pours a measure into each. Handing one to me, and ignoring the shocked look on my face, he says "Congratulations Kapitanleutnant, I have good news for you...." |
UKönig have you ever thought of compiling all your short stories into a book of sorts?
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If those who read these posts enjoy them then I feel that I am doing a job well done and that is a reward on its own. Having said that I do have an agent and I am trying to sell this idea to the entertainment industry. I feel it has an easy flow to it and the subject almost writes itself. What you are reading is not very far from a first draft. I thank all who take the time to indulge my interest in the Uboat campaign. I also have a German in law who went missing on the russian front in the last week of Jan, '45 so in a small way, it's my salute for his then pointless sacrifice. PS. And I do enjoy reading about the campaigns that other players have had. I get inspiration from them as well. I thank you all. |
Thanks Ukonig!
Ive got two Liberty class to finish off, West of Dakar then off to South Africa. Hope its more productive than ED11.... :) |
Currently patrolling off the southern coast of Ireland at the moment. I've bagged me a coastal tanker but that's it so far. War only started with England a couple days ago so the pickings are going to be slim for awhile.
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