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-   -   [REL]The Wolves of Steel - SH5 Megamod (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=210703)

gap 06-13-15 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2320797)
Not so sure, but I could add also that when patch is enabled clouds and smoke will hurtle over the sky like crazy...

...

All in all, the patch isn't really useful so you shouldn't bothering your self with it...

Indeed a 60 m/s wind speed is a (very) rare occurrence in real world, and no doubt it is way too much to be handled in game, but supposed that we manage understanding how TDW's patch works, I would be content enough if we could limit maximum wind speed to something like 25-30 m/s, i.e. Beaufort 10-11 (storm to violent storm), or even a bit lesser if need be. Just for reference, consider that stock 15 m/s wind speed limit is equivalent to Beaufort 7 (moderate gale), though most wave mods tend to exagerrate its waves, compensating for such a low limit. Real world full-scale is Beaufort 12 (hurricane) for wind speeds exceeding 32.6 m/s.

Some theoretical considerations now; look at the following link:

The Probability Distribution of Sea Surface Wind Speeds. Part I: Theory and SeaWinds Observations.

Ignore the complicated calculations and skip to the graphs at p. 6. The first graph is representig average annual wind speeds at the sea level. As you can see, there are just a few spots on the world map where it exceeds 12 m/s. The second graph shows the annual deviation from mean wind speed, which on turn never exceeds ca. 5 m/s. By coupling this information with some basic statistics, we get that in the most extreme case (i.e. a theoretical spot on the map where the highest mean and highest standard deviation are coinciding), 84% of the times maximum wind speed won't exceed 17 m/s (= max. mean + 1 max. standard deviation), and 97.75% of the times it won't exceed 22 m/s (= max. mean + 2 max. standard deviations). Indeed this is ignoring skewness and kurtosis (3rd and 4th graphs) which are a measure of how asymmetrical a probability distribution is. Those factors can be simulated only partly in game, by setting different min-max wind speed ranges for each climate area based on season. Doing so would result in a slight increase of the maximum "likely" wind speed estimated above (i.e. not more than 22 m/s in 97.75% of the cases) for some seasons/areas; whence my proposed value of 25-30 m/s which, I repeat, would only apply to the windiest season of a few spots on the world map. A similar approach (it is: simulating asymmetrical wind speed distributions by introducing different max-min ranges for the same area, based on season) is already used in Dynamic Environment, within the 15 m/s limit imposed by the stock game, but increasing it reasonably would allow us to create more variability where needed/possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2320797)
I think that 60m/s patch doesn't interfere with wind speeds set in your env files but I cant be 100% sure.

This is the worst possible scenery indeed, but there are easy ways to discard/confirm your hypothesis, and this is exactly what I was proposing to test. In order to do it, I only need a couple of volunteers ready to embark themselves on a few weather report patrols with TDW's patch and my upcoming patch enabled. Similar duties were part of the u-boat war after all. What is needed is just a bit of pacience and a good dose of imagination, required for replacing oncle Karl with me as B.d.U... :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sjizzle (Post 2320805)
Offtopic and really sorry vdr1981

@gap
heya m8 can u tell me how i can edit the map 4320_2160.raw file i wanna add time zone for real navigation :D

What photo editing program are you using? For sure photoshop is capable of opening/editing/saving raw files.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sjizzle (Post 2320805)
on topic now i remember about and old discussion about with speed 60/s in fifi's tweak but i can not find that thread anymore :D

Thank you for the information Sjizzle, let me know if you manage tracking down that thread.

gap off :salute:

kevinsue 06-13-15 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gap (Post 2320851)
Indeed a 60 m/s wind speed is a (very) rare occurrence in real world, and no doubt it is way too much to be handled in game, but supposed that we manage understanding how TDW's patch works, I would be content enough if we could limit maximum wind speed to something like 25-30 m/s, i.e. Beaufort 10-11 (storm to violent storm), or even a bit lesser if need be. Just for reference, consider that stock 15 m/s wind speed limit is equivalent to Beaufort 7 (moderate gale), though most wave mods tend to exagerrate its waves, compensating for such a low limit. Real world full-scale is Beaufort 12 (hurricane) for wind speeds exceeding 32.6 m/s.


This is the worst possible scenery indeed, but there are easy ways to discard/confirm your hypothesis, and this is exactly what I was proposing to test. In order to do it, I only need a couple of volunteers ready to embark themselves on a few weather report patrols with TDW's patch and my upcoming patch enabled. Similar duties were part of the u-boat war after all. What is needed is just a bit of pacience and a good dose of imagination, required for replacing oncle Karl with me as B.d.U... :D

Had a few instances of strong winds around where I live this decade....Category 5 cyclone Larry!:D Since reading these posts regarding the 60m/s patch, my curiosity has been piqued. After trawling through the files, I was beginning to think along the same lines insofar as the max value of "15" m/s is an arbitrary value for Maximum and the "60" m/s become the new arbitrary value i.e the old values require factoring by 4. I was thinking of experimenting when I get my head around the EnvSim.act with a max value of 30 m/s and see what happens.

I've been looking for where the Generic Patcher inserts the new values into the EnvSim.act but could not find the position offset, Offset=0x3BED8 and just realised why while writing this...because I'm an idiot! I don't have the patch enabled! :oops: From initial observations, it appears that the EnvSim.act contains the min and max values but calls up the various .cfg files and uses those values to assemble and present the overall environmental conditions for that particular scenario. This appears to be the same with .exe and .dll files as there appears to be no variable values in the assembly call ups.

As Vdr was saying, to make this patch useable to it's full capability, the SeaParameters.cfg would have to be extensively reworked to make the waves etc look realistic as well as the m/s values for weather reports etc to name just a few.

Off topic while looking through the SH5.exe searching for weather related entries, I came across the CO2 rate of change entry ~ the CO2 level increases 10x faster than is should on the analogue gauge in the control room. I'll find the controlling value one of these days and factor it by 10 :yep:

CPU Disasm
Address Hex dump Command Comments
0145AAF4 . 43 4F 32 4C 65 76 65 6C 49 6E 63 72 65 61 73 65 ASCII "CO2LevelIncrease" ; ASCII "CO2LevelIncreaseRate"
CPU Disasm
Address Hex dump Command Comments
0145AB04 . 52 61 74 65 00 ASCII "Rate",0

Sjizzle 06-14-15 01:12 AM

@gap only found this picture about wind speed at 0/ms and 60/ms in your dynamic env. thread and now some of my memories came back and all the discussion was DynEnv v2.9 - Wave Mechanics - Gale (Improved) now i am on page 1k on tdw's patcher hope that today i will find or read all pages from the patcher thread :D
http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/861435Zerowind7.jpg

vdr1981 06-14-15 07:26 AM

If I understood you correctly guys , you're trying to say that 30m/s patch would be more useful then 60m/s patch, right?
Still, I fail to see what could you actually accomplish with 30/60m/s that you already can't with stock wind settings??:06:
Also, how would you solve fast moving smoke/clouds problem with patch enabled?

Are you aware at all that 15m/s waves with stock seaparam.cfg (0,5,10,15) and 60m/s waves with modified seaparm. cfg (0,20,40,60) will actually look exactly the same???

We can continue like this forever but you'll understand what I'm trying to say when you do some testing for your self...
Is that mighty laptop of your finally ready for sea trials Gap ???:D

What's more important for me and the biggest problem actaully is the fact that almost all of your hard work on DynEnv is completely canceled with save/reload bug/limitation and actual weather in game appears completely random and stuck.
Can we actually do something to bypass this problem??

vdr1981 06-14-15 07:30 AM

By the way, patch/hotfix 4 is ready for download...

The Wolves of Steel 1.03 - Patch 5_HotFix 4 changelog:

Snapshot changes:
-

Other tweaks:
- Menu.txt: various tweaks to make crew reports more realistic. Watch crew will not be able to distinguish between troop transport and freighter. They are all merchants now.
- Smaller New UI's teleport buttons
- Init.aix: AI detection abilities
- DBSM speech periscope sound
- Increased number of days spent in the bunker from 14 to more realistic 25
- Fixed small issue in campaign.cfg files that can prevent few macro objectives to be date activated (space behind "=" mark)
- Tweaked armor and HP values in zone.cfg file (from next RSD update)
- Tweaked armor and HP values in submarines .zon files (from next RSD update)
- Removed some of less important/duplicated and merged charts in order to meet 50 charts limit.
- Less jumpy sub at lower wind speeds
- Added few new sounds - torpedo tubes/opening ect...

Added mods:
- SD_MapLocationNameFix_v1_2
- RadcapricornLarge Optics No Milliradian Scale Binoculars
- AilBubbles 1.0
- AilImpurity 1.2
- IO_MapCourseLine_sharp pencil_mod
- autoscripts1.0_WOS_tuned
- Sjizzle's - Charts for NewUIs part 5_23.05.2015
- sobers hud sounds V1 SH5
- SteelViking's Sky Banding Mod

Removed mods:
-

Installation:
1. This is Hotfix is not cumulative so it has to be enabled with JSGME after The Wolves of Steel 1.03-Patch 5 and before optional patches. Your activated modlist should look like this:

The Wolves of Steel 1.03
The Wolves of Steel 1.03 - Patch 5
The Wolves of Steel 1.03 - Patch 5_HotFix 4
The Wolves of Steel 1.03 - TDW Real Navigation *(optional mod)
The Wolves of Steel - *x* Resolution Patch *(optional mod)

You can remove The Wolves of Steel 1.03 - Patch 5_HotFix 3 from your JSGME


* Enable hotfix in the bunker.
* Some smaller changes will kick in after camping restart or after player's advance to the next campaign.
* Grossdeutscher Rundfunk New Remix 1939-1945_CTD Fix is not needed anymore...

gap 06-14-15 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sober (Post 2320843)

Useful link sober, thank you for sharing! :up:

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevinsue (Post 2320864)
I was thinking of experimenting when I get my head around the EnvSim.act with a max value of 30 m/s and see what happens.

...

From initial observations, it appears that the EnvSim.act contains the min and max values but calls up the various .cfg files and uses those values to assemble and present the overall environmental conditions for that particular scenario. This appears to be the same with .exe and .dll files as there appears to be no variable values in the assembly call ups.

As Vdr was saying, to make this patch useable to it's full capability, the SeaParameters.cfg would have to be extensively reworked to make the waves etc look realistic as well as the m/s values for weather reports etc to name just a few.

Thank you Kev, let us know if you find anything useful :up:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sjizzle (Post 2320872)
@gap only found this picture about wind speed at 0/ms and 60/ms in your dynamic env. thread and now some of my memories came back and all the discussion was DynEnv v2.9 - Wave Mechanics - Gale (Improved) now i am on page 1k on tdw's patcher hope that today i will find or read all pages from the patcher thread :D

Thank you too Sjizzle! Have you managed opening the raw file that you were asking me about yesterday? :salute:

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2320929)
If I understood you correctly guys , you're trying to say that 30m/s patch would be more useful then 60m/s patch, right?
Still, I fail to see what could you actually accomplish with 30/60m/s that you already can't with stock wind settings??:06:

A more realistic distribution of wind speed probabilities, and a more accurate simulation of sea waves as a function of in game wind speeds. :03:

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2320929)
Also, how would you solve fast moving smoke/clouds problem with patch enabled?

Isn't smoke/clouds speed a function of wind speed? It that was true, limiting max wind speed to 30 m/s or lesser, would halve clouds speed compared to when 60 m/s wind speeds are allowed. Anyway most of the time cloud speed will be even slower than this, due to max wind speed limitations set in climate weather cfg files. Should cloud/smoke wind speed still be too high, I hope we can find the relevant game variable and tweak it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2320929)
Are you aware at all that 15m/s waves with stock seaparam.cfg (0,5,10,15) and 60m/s waves with modified seaparm. cfg (0,20,40,60) will actually look exactly the same???

Maybe yes, maybe not. I didn't look into all the wave mods available for SH5 but as I wrote yesterday most of them tend to exagerrate wave heights, especially towards the 15 m/s wind speed limit. This is to compensate the lack of higherwind speeds in stock game. There are formulas for calculating the most relevant wave parameters (height, amplitude and speed) based on wind speeds, but as far as I know no wave mod is based on them. I have those formulas (a bit semplified indeed) in a spreadsheet somewhere on my old hard drive. All you need is entering wind speed, and all the remaining parameters are calculated automatically. A 2D representation of the generated waves (also coded into my spreadsheet) gives decent results. Of course some, or many, manual tweaks might be needed, but I plan entering those values in game. I don't care if the resulting 30 m/s waves will look identical, or even smaller, than old 15 m/s waves, as far as the resulting wave mod will match more closely in-game wind speeds with waves whose shape and height is more similar to what one would expect for the same wind speeds in real world.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2320929)
We can continue like this forever but you'll understand what I'm trying to say when you do some testing for your self...
Is that mighty laptop of your finally ready for sea trials Gap ???:D

Almost, but I am afraid that though being a decent system, my new laptop doesn't come even close to the top-of-the-line technology. At least not enough to be called "mighty" :haha:

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2320929)
What's more important for me and the biggest problem actaully is the fact that almost all of your hard work on DynEnv is completely canceled with save/reload bug/limitation and actual weather in game appears completely random and stuck.
Can we actually do something to bypass this problem??

This is an old limitation, common to all the games of the SH family. Nothing can be done on this respect, if not by heavily tweaking the game code. From my illiterate point of view, such a task would be hard even for TDW, as he should make the game to save weather variables in sevegame files, and to read them back when the savegame is reloaded. This is adding new code to the game, not just tweaking some variables, but maybe one could get a clue from single missions, where current weather is read from file. As far as you know, has something similar ever be done for SHIII or IV? :hmmm:

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2320933)
By the way, patch/hotfix 4 is ready for download...

The Wolves of Steel 1.03 - Patch 5_HotFix 4 changelog:

:yeah:

Sjizzle 06-14-15 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gap (Post 2320979)


Thank you too Sjizzle! Have you managed opening the raw file that you were asking me about yesterday? :salute:



:yeah:

Nope gap cos i don't have photoshop only gimp and pain.net and i can't open with them :(

gap 06-14-15 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sjizzle (Post 2320982)
Nope gap cos i don't have photoshop only gimp and pain.net and i can't open with them :(

RAW file format plugins for Gimp:
http://ufraw.sourceforge.net/Install.html

RAW file format plugins for Paint.NET:
http://paint.net.amihotornot.com.au/...Camera_Images/
http://forums.getpaint.net/index.php...-paintnet-403/

Hope it helps :)

Sjizzle 06-14-15 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gap (Post 2320986)

they doesn't work i have tested them already

vdr1981 06-14-15 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gap (Post 2320979)
...and a more accurate simulation of sea waves as a function of in game wind speeds. :03:

After tons of testing, I'm really afraid that something like this with SH weather/waves engine isn't possible, unfortunately...Even Sober gave up after 30+ of his waves mods...:wah:

Quote:

Originally Posted by gap (Post 2320979)
Of course some, or many, manual tweaks might be needed, but I plan entering those values in game.

You already know that entering real life values into almost any of SH files will give you totally unrealistic results in actual gameplay...There may be a LOT of tweaking to come...


Quote:

Originally Posted by gap (Post 2320979)
This is an old limitation, common to all the games of the SH family. Nothing can be done on this respect, if not by heavily tweaking the game code.

Forgive me, this may sound a bit harsh, but what is the point of investing time in such complicated job like weather engine modeling when "thing" is broken in a first place and it cant be fixed?:wah:

gap 06-14-15 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sjizzle (Post 2320987)
they doesn't work i have tested them already

There are several formats going under the name of RAW, maybe the one used for that particular map is unsupported Gimp and Paint.NET plugins. But wait, I can still help you... :03:

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2320989)
After tons of testing, I'm really afraid that something like this with SH weather/waves engine isn't possible, unfortunately...Even Sober gave up after 30+ of his waves mods...:wah:

You already know that entering real life values into almost any of SH files will give you totally unrealistic results in actual gameplay...There may be a LOT of tweaking to come...

Forgive me, this may sound a bit harsh, but what is the point of investing time in such complicated job like weather engine modeling when "thing" is broken in a first place and it cant be fixed?:wah:

Yet again the same discussion! No problem mate, I am afraid we won't ever find a compromise between our different modding philosophies. The two of us are too stubborn, and I am not here to kidnap your thread. :O: :up:

vdr1981 06-14-15 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gap (Post 2321001)

Yet again the same discussion! No problem mate, I am afraid we won't ever find a compromise between our different modding philosophies. The two of us are too stubborn, and I am not here to kidnap your thread. :O: :up:

Ohh, don't pout on me now! :D
I'm just a bit skeptical after all this testing about final outcome (not without a reason IMO) but if you think that something can actually be done , we can focus or efforts, don't you worry...:up::up:

One more question though...
I noticed that when I load my campaign in North sea or in northeast Atlantic first weather change will always kick in after aprox 72 hours?? Further on, I really dont know what is going on because I rarely stay in the game for so long...
Is this change controlled by DynEnv files and can this time be lowered to something like 12/24h?

On the other hand when I was playing Happy Times campaign it seems that weather changes in central Atlantic are much more dynamic (like it should be with your DynEnv I guess) with first weather change kickig in after only 6-12h which actually gave me feeling that weather is actually "alive"...

vdr1981 06-14-15 12:33 PM

Video: https://youtu.be/9Ui2tDvupc4

Testing:Testing: new sounds, meny.txt entries, early war magnetic detonators, underwater view range ect...

What do you think about new torpedo firing sounds?

P.S.
I know , FPS and quality suck...:D:D

gap 06-14-15 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2321004)
Ohh, don't pout on me now! :D
I'm just a bit skeptical after all this testing about final outcome (not without a reason IMO) but if you think that something can actually be done , we can focus or efforts, don't you worry...:up::up:

I am not worried. Should I? :D
I myself am not sure wether there is anything that can be done about wind speeds and waves as far as the 60 m/s wind speed patch is concerned, we need for more data on this topic. We will see. :up:

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2321004)
One more question though...
I noticed that when I load my campaign in North sea or in northeast Atlantic first weather change will always kick in after aprox 72 hours?? Further on, I really dont know what is going on because I rarely stay in the game for so long...
Is this change controlled by DynEnv files and can this time be lowered to something like 12/24h?

On the other hand when I was playing Happy Times campaign it seems that weather changes in central Atlantic are much more dynamic (like it should be with your DynEnv I guess) with first weather change kickig in after only 6-12h which actually gave me feeling that weather is actually "alive"...

Weather change intervals are set in climate weather cfg files, similar to wind speed ranges. For polar and temperate zones, DynEnv settings should force a weather change after min. 3, max. 12 hours for all the seasons except for summer, when this interval is widened to 5-48 hours. Season duration changes depending on the zone you are currently in, following the settings of ClimateZones.cfg file.
There are evidences that weather in general is affected by land proximity, though I am not sure wehether this factor affects weather changes as well, or not. After a weather change is triggered, there are no ways to prevent the game from generating again the same weather as before. Wind speed dropping from 15 to 1 m/s after a single weather change is unlikely in game: the game engine favours smooth transitions somehow. Similarly, wind speed, cloud coverage, rain and fog, are related in an unknown way, i.e. their combination is not totally random; there are some configurable parameters in scene.dat which might apply to weather generation routines, but I am not sure that they are actually applied in game (they might be SHIV leftovers). In any case having exactly the same combination of weather factors after a weather change should be a rare occurrence. You can still go through several cycles of medium fog (:-?), but at least wind direction or whatever other factor, should change between them. :salute:

Sjizzle 06-14-15 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981 (Post 2321012)
Video: https://youtu.be/9Ui2tDvupc4

Testing:Testing: new sounds, meny.txt entries, early war magnetic detonators, underwater view range ect...

What do you think about new torpedo firing sounds?

P.S.
I know , FPS and quality suck...:D:D

nice one vdr1981 if u are interested i am working to take out from das boot movie the hull creack sound :D


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