Huge pro-EU rally grips Ukraine
 

Seems a little strange some people are desperate to join the EU but on the other hand if You are likely to get more out than you put in...why not?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25290959

Wonder if they know enough about our beloved EU

Markus

Probably not but distancing themselves from Russia is probably a great incentive.

Begging for money?

The Ukrainians are free to choose.

Between plague and cholera.

Which will they pick? Poo on toast or a turd sandwich?

I still remember what happened to Georgia.

She was such a nice girl. Hey if Ukraine joins the EU, then can BossMark's girlfriend visit him any time she likes?:O:

Yeah but only if he can find the space to keep her entourage/family :)

Well, the mob in Kiev certainly voted on their opinion of Lenin today.

http://media2.s-nbcnews.com/j/MSNBC/...otoblog600.jpg

Thread necromancy in light of the recent deaths in the Ukraine.

Things seem to be spiralling now, possibly beginning to come to a head. What started as a seemingly pro-EU rally is now primarily engaged on removing Yanukovich. Vitality Klitschko, the figurehead of the opposition, has said that the president should announce that is standing down and elections will be called, and has warned that "tomorrow, if the president does not respond... then we will go on the attack".
There's supposedly a crowd growing outside the US embassy and eggs have been thrown at the welcome sign amidst accusations from certain usual sources that the West is stirring up the protests in order to remove the pro-Russian Yanukovich.

I can't help but ponder how this is being viewed in the Kremlin, would Putin act to support Yanukovich if an armed uprising took place? Will Yanukovich release the army on the protesters? Tanks have been spotted on train transports but any relation to the protests have been denied strongly.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BemRXFtCYAA-gUR.jpg

I suspect that Thursday may be a very interesting day for the Ukraine if Klitschko gets his way.

There's a live streaming video from the Ukraine, in Ukrainian:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrZcAsPKK74

Live updates in English here:
http://rt.com/news/kiev-protest-clashes-updates-862/

What appears to be live footage from the rooftops near the frontline of the protest:
http://rt.com/on-air/ukraine-kiev-police-protesters/


In slightly lighter news, the protesters did create their own catapult to launch rocks at the police, who responded with Roman-esque shield turtle tactics.

http://i.minus.com/igq5vP0DyZaRI.gif

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BenJksXCAAAfY5S.jpg

http://krautchan.net/files/1390418229001.gif

And, of course, the inevitable gas mask photo:

http://www.upyxis.com/img/events/m_1...84dc0f5570.jpg

I would really like to learn about latest, trustworthy data on how the Ukrainian people in total stand on the issue "EU or Russia". But trustworthy data in a situation like this? It's all propaganda now, both inside and outside the Ukraine, both in Russia and in the EU.

Yanukovich has Putin, the Ukrainian establishment, the oligarchs and all the apparatschiks on his side. That forms a very very strong side already.

I expect that in the major cities, the big cities, people by majority are pro EU, but that in the rural places the pro-Russian sentiment dominates. The majorty of the population I think lives here.

Historically, there also is a second split that needs to be recognised: the Western part of the Ukraine, which historically has been part of the Donau monarchy and of Poland, and the Eastern part with the coal industry centres where people strongly tend towards Russia.

I see no reason to alter my opinion so far that the majority of the Ukrainians still is pro-Russia. The media coverage here in Germany, I believe, is not giving a complete picture, but transports a distorted info on the strength of the two sides. If Yanukovich decides to play it really the hard way, I see little chance for the protest movement to win. He holds the trumps. The opposition - anything but really being united - only has its desire, its rage and its frustration.

Things could become interesting in the unlikely event that the workers in the coal mines in the East decide to rebel against Yanukovich. But as already said, traditionally these are very pro-Russian, so this scenario is something I do not really expect to happen. and even if they kick Yanukovich - this does not mean that they want join the EU. They could kick Yanu and still prefer to ally with Russia.

All this is the front facade of the show only. The real strings are pulled by the oligarchs, and the Kremlin. In the end, even Yanukovich is just an expendable puppet.

@Oberon
:salute: Thanks for the Ukrainian link. It's interesting for me to hear Ukrainian vs Russian. I can hear the accent and they have some weird spellings. Reminds me of my Russian 202 level classes.

Maybe you can translate for BossMark when his girlfriend gets cranky and forgets her Engleesh.:D

Seriously though its looking like the poo is hitting the fan over there right now. I don;t see them getting a clear majority either way on this one.

Well, they've got a semi-truce until 20:00 local time today (18:00GMT), whilst negotiations take place between the opposition and the leaders. It looks like they were able to put out a lot of the tyre fires that were burning last night when I went to bed, but there's still a lot of people hanging around.

Skybird makes a very good point though in the fact that the country is split between those in the city and those in the countryside (not to mention the traditional east/west split) and there has been a disproportionate media focus on the urban areas to the neglect of the countryside, but well, you know how the media is, they go where it's on fire.
The key part of any successful uprising or struggle though is what side the military falls on, and given how this is localised to Kiev, I imagine that the military is going to be hedging its bets in favour of the current government, as such, aside from possible localised defections, the army and police will remain loyal to Yanukovich, and that means that this uprising will fail. The main question being, can Klitschko bluff some measure of compromise before Yanukovichs patience runs out, and can Yanukovich dismantle the protests without making himself a pariah state in the eyes of the west (although given that he's a pro-Russian man, that's probably not that high on his agenda, but still, it helps to keep both sides happy).

I predict a compromise may be reached, early elections perhaps, but Yanukovich will not stand down, he will run again, and if he has the support in the rest of the country that we think he has, he will win again, and then we'll be back at square one and we'll have to see where that leads.

If Betonov reads this thread, how are things in the Ukraine being watched by the anti-government sentiment in Slovenia? If this uprising does, by some miracle, succeed in its goal, could you see it inspiring further uprisings in Slovenia?

If the Ukrainian military were in danger of making a stand against the pro-Russian government, I assume Russia will lure them back into line by promising generous "military aid", fiscal benefits for the decisive high officers, and offers for new modern equipment. As somebody once said: "The military is a club of big boys who share a fetish for toys".

Interesting to see Vitaly Klitschko is the opposition leader....you'd think he'd had enough of fighting by now.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/0...A0K0Z320140121

There is something oddly amusing about seeing the return of the Roman legionary testudo after a thousand years, even if the Kiev police don't quite have the ancient tactic down yet.

Looks like Rome meets Nome. :D


http://i.imgur.com/xGonHHs.jpg

http://bicycle2011.com/wp-content/up...09/testudo.jpg

Yeah, although the Romans never had to deal with Molotov cocktails:

http://i.minus.com/iFSgx1z7bFt6q.gif

The Prime Minister, Azarov, has stated that his government will step down if parliament votes for it, but Azarovs coalition holds a slim majority in parliament, so there's more than a reasonable chance that they'd vote against it, something that the protesters likely know.
The truce is due to end any minute now, and Klitschko has stated that he'll make a speech to the protesters giving details of how todays negotiations have gone. Apparently the city of Rovno has had a regional administration building taken over by protesters, not much more detail from there though.

Time will tell if tonight will be busy or quiet for the law officers of Kiev.


EDIT: Turns out the negotiations were postponed during the day and they're only taking place now. No doubt so that any bad news that leaks out will happen much later in the night so that the law enforcement officers have had a chance to dig in and be ready for it during todays 'truce'.