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-   -   Huge pro-EU rally grips Ukraine (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=209742)

Ducimus 03-10-14 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird (Post 2183928)
A quote from German TV, what Putin once has said, they say.

"You cannot be sovereign (in the meaning of superior, competent) when you are weak."

That is sober, unsentimental realism. If you think about it, it is true for individuals, as well as nations and organizations. Even for the EU. :lol:

Reminds me of what I say myself: "You cannot be tolerant where you are weak. Tolerance you can only practice when you are the superior and the other is inferior. The weaker one is not tolerant, but appeasing, and not because he wants, but because he must."

EU, knock-knock - somebody at home? Some good advise one better should have listend to.

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

Schroeder 03-10-14 03:45 PM

Nato is now sending AWACS to Poland and Romania...very effective....

Why don't they just stop doing this senseless crap? It just costs tax payer money and won't do anything.
http://www.dw.de/eu-prepares-russia-...ine/a-17486571

Oberon 03-10-14 03:59 PM

If they stopped then everyone would be

"WHY AREN@T WE DOING SOMETHING TO SPTP PUTIN!!!!111oneoneone"

Every Eastern European NATO member would be in uproar because NATO isn't doing anything, and since NATO can't do much anyway, it just has to shuffle units around to make it look like it is.

XabbaRus 03-10-14 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TarJak (Post 2184013)
Footage of Russian soldiers firing on a Ukrainian aircraft has emerged today: http://mobile.news.com.au/world/vide...-1226849808243

The knocking is getting louder...

Just watched it. That plane was being lased. Not pleasant but quite a but different from shots fired. I don't like whatever game Putin is up to but I don't trust the current Ukrainian govt mob either. I do have suspicions about how quickly all the protests were organised starting back last year after the U-turn by Yanukovich. The whole thing stinks on both sides.

Skybird 03-10-14 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schroeder (Post 2184231)
Nato is now sending AWACS to Poland and Romania...very effective....

Why don't they just stop doing this senseless crap? It just costs tax payer money and won't do anything.
http://www.dw.de/eu-prepares-russia-...ine/a-17486571

They do not do it so much because of the Russian attack on Europe that will be unleashed soon :D , but because of the Poles and the people in the three Baltic states. As we have seen in past debates in this forum, years ago, some people there still are a bit hypersensitive about the Russians coming back and the Fourth Reich marching into Warsaw again. The E-3s are so big birds in the news that they cannot be overlooked and thus will give them back some calmness, hopefully.

TarJak 03-10-14 04:13 PM

No doubt both sides will try to make mud stick on their opponents.

Jimbuna 03-10-14 04:17 PM

Same old...wash, rinse then wash and rinse again.

Political chess.

Skybird 03-10-14 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XabbaRus (Post 2184241)
I don't trust the current Ukrainian govt mob either. I do have suspicions about how quickly all the protests were organised starting back last year after the U-turn by Yanukovich. The whole thing stinks on both sides.

OH YES. :yep: The stink is so intense that it even can be seen in the air like a layer of grey haze, that much it stinks, no matter what direction the wind is blowing from.

I said it earlier, and I stick to it: the West sooner or later will need to correct its position towards the gang in Kiew like it had to correct its initial propaganda assessment on the Georgian government, and Shaakashvili. It was correct to not get engaged then, and it is correct to not get engaged now.

Alex 03-10-14 04:22 PM


Flamebatter90 03-11-14 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XabbaRus (Post 2184241)
Just watched it. That plane was being lased. Not pleasant but quite a but different from shots fired. I don't like whatever game Putin is up to but I don't trust the current Ukrainian govt mob either. I do have suspicions about how quickly all the protests were organised starting back last year after the U-turn by Yanukovich. The whole thing stinks on both sides.

The video on that site is not the full one. The following videos shows the allegeted shooting (00:45):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPRT1e0nPIU

Jimbuna 03-11-14 06:47 AM

looks like there won't be any meaningful dialogue between the US and Russia if the Sunday referendum goes ahead.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26524056

antikristuseke 03-11-14 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird (Post 2184242)
They do not do it so much because of the Russian attack on Europe that will be unleashed soon :D , but because of the Poles and the people in the three Baltic states. As we have seen in past debates in this forum, years ago, some people there still are a bit hypersensitive about the Russians coming back and the Fourth Reich marching into Warsaw again. The E-3s are so big birds in the news that they cannot be overlooked and thus will give them back some calmness, hopefully.

Because Russia in its various form has a great track record of not invading neighbouring countries, they just go around liberating em.
In international politics small nations tend to be traded willy-nilly by supposed allies, has happened before and will probably happen again, just hopefully not within my lifetime.

Skybird 03-11-14 08:17 AM

Janukovich's ex-villa.

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/auslan...-a-957801.html

It's interactive.

Yes I know he was a gangster, and it is wealth stolen, that's not what I put into question. Not at all.

But take it for itself. It is beautiful. Glamour and gaudiness, but still: beautifull, a piece of art, and nice colours.

Think of how many pieces of art have been financed in Western culture by blood money, stolen treasure, corrupted leaders and elites. From castles to chapels and chruches, from paintings to sculptures - wealth did not differ between criminal and legally obtained money when financing such things. There would have been no Italian rennaissance and the rich treasure of paintings and art artifacts - without the corruption of the Medici. History holds some very grim irony, doesn'T it.

I have seen pics and films of palaces with more gold and jewelry, and less taste. The wood makes the difference, I think.

Betonov 03-11-14 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamebatter90 (Post 2184409)
The video on that site is not the full one. The following videos shows the allegeted shooting (00:45):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPRT1e0nPIU

The green light at 0:25 looks like a laser range finder or simple binoculars with a laser pointer. :hmmm:

Tribesman 03-11-14 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird (Post 2184445)
There would have been no Italian rennaissance and the rich treasure of paintings and art artifacts - without the corruption of the Medici. History holds some very grim irony, doesn'T it.

The real irony being that the Florentine regime is one you hold up as an example of your dream utopia, despite it being a prime example of all the bad political trade and social problems you claim it would magically fix.:yep:


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