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Gargamel 12-06-10 05:06 AM

So, I was expecting to hit my patrol area, not see anything as per normal, and then go to new York to say hi before the war was over and mess up them yanks harbor some.

On previous patrols I've been mixing my torps, 6-8 steam advanced eels, small handful of acoustics, and the rest advanced electrics. This time I went all acoustics. I will try to stack that each time if I have the renown. 1k a pop per eel is not cheap.

19.1.45. 1631
Patrol 5
U-2502, 11th Flotilla
Left at: January 19, 1945, 16:31
From: Bergen
Mission Orders: Patrol grid AN11


26.1.45.
1526 Grid AM 1 Ship sunk! USS Richard S. Bull (JC Butler class), 1350 tons. Crew: 209. Crew lost: 14
1533
Grid AM 1 Ship sunk! USS Duffy (Evarts class), 1192 tons. Crew: 190. Crew lost: 68
1600
Grid AM 1 Ship sunk! USS Munda (Casablanca class), 10400 tons. Crew: 888. Crew lost: 586
1930
Grid AM 1 Ship sunk! SS Ability (Coastal Freighter), 1870 tons. Cargo: Coal. Crew: 21. Crew lost: 9
1930
Grid AM 1 Ship sunk! SS Frey (Coastal Freighter), 1869 tons. Cargo: Coal. Crew: 29. Crew lost: 25
1938
Grid AM 1 Ship sunk! SS Empire Citizen (Granville-type Freighter), 4707 tons. Cargo: Coal. Crew: 73. Crew lost: 48

27.1.45.

1121
Grid AM 27 Ship sunk! SS Zaandam (Troop Transport), 8640 tons. Cargo: Passengers. Crew: 403. Crew lost: 145
1123
Grid AM 29 Ship sunk! HMS Zanzibar (Colony class), 1430 tons. Crew: 116. Crew lost: 87
1133 Grid AM 27 Ship sunk! MV Languedoc (Large Tanker), 12490 tons. Cargo: Aviation Fuel. Crew: 50. Crew lost: 6
1135
Grid AM 27 Ship sunk! SS Rangitane (Large Troop Ship), 16816 tons. Cargo: Troops. Crew: 604. Crew lost: 271
1145
Grid AM 27 Ship sunk! USS Rizzi (JC Butler class), 1350 tons. Crew: 194. Crew lost: 98
1145
Grid AM 29 Ship sunk! SS John Martin Miller (Liberty Cargo), 7335 tons. Cargo: Sugar. Crew: 49. Crew lost: 47

30.1.45.

1537
Patrol results
Crew losses: 0
Ships sunk: 12
Aircraft destroyed: 0
Patrol tonnage: 69449 tons

AS you can see, the patrol went in spurts. Hit my patrol area right off the bat, nada, plotted a course for New York. On my way, hit some warships, found this Carrier in the middle. Instead of sneaking in, I said screw it and blasted my way in. Thumped the carrier, damaged, but didnt sink a couple more DD's (which I found odd), Went to flank, popped a decoy, knuckled, and dove hard, going silent. Easy peasy slip away.

My escape path allowed me to blunder upon this 3 ship mini covoy, took three eels, three boats, boom boom hoohie woochie.

At this point, I had fired about 1/3 of my torps, And I felt it wouldnt be worth my time to head over to New York without having enough ammo to sink the island. So I plotted a patrol path around the western approaches, and soon got reports of a large convoy.

Snuck in at peri depth, popped up in the middle and started blasting away. Took out the heart of the convoy first, after a couple acoustics pulled a "SQUIRREL!" and went after an already sinking freighter. Weather was real bad, all the grey marks (and a couple of reds) are weather kills. They didnt need a uboat to kill this convoy, Poseidon was doing a good enough job as is. To escape, I picked a destroyer, ran at it fairly fast, shot my lost eel at it, decoyed, knuckled, dove silent, and slipped through the gap the now dead Destroyer left in the screen.

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/6...0101495188.png

So now I'm totally out of ammo, so I sprint home to hopefully get in as many patrols as I can before this war ends. The weather is so bad that I take 20% hull damage just trying to get down the Fjords near Bergen. IT was so bad that I had to turn around and head back out to deeper (like more than 10m) water so that I could safely make it into Bergen. A couple of the patrol craft had been bashed to bits already. Not me!.

Overall good patrol, and I really like the idea of having acoustics for DD work, just gotta be very careful in how you aim, it may completely veer off course and hit another target, or even me it seemed one shot.

Missing Name 12-06-10 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gargamel (Post 1547780)
On my way, hit some warships, found this Carrier in the middle. Instead of sneaking in, I said screw it and blasted my way in. Thumped the carrier, damaged, but didnt sink a couple more DD's (which I found odd), Went to flank, popped a decoy, knuckled, and dove hard, going silent. Easy peasy slip away.

Did you use the deck gun in part of your blasting away?

Gargamel 12-06-10 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing Name (Post 1547867)
Did you use the deck gun in part of your blasting away?

No deck gun, XXI, early '45. The merchants would have chewed me up. I rarely ever surface if only to send status reports every few days.

Gargamel 12-06-10 04:29 PM

U-2025, XXI
KptLt Hartmut Kriener
30 March, 1945, 2345

When I opened the sealed orders as we cruised out of the Bergen fjord, I saw that BDU has assigned us AN76 as our patrol grid. Checking my map, as I had never heard of operations occurring there before, I saw it lies right in the mouth of the channel. Not only that, but half the grid is on English soil.

Breaking protocol, I consulted with my other officers, all of whom I trust explicitly. We agreed the war is too close to a finish to go on a suicide patrol with no reward. We decided that since we were going to attempt to raid New York on our last patrol, only to be interrupted by wondrous targets, that we would go there again.

We avoided engaging multiple small and medium merchants as we threaded the UK-Iceland gap. We were forced to sink a destroyer as it's patrol path took it right on top of us.

We've been doing the math, and It'll be close on time. My 1WO, LtzS Tiederman, figures the war may be over by June, and our best fuel efficient speed gets us there by late April, early May. The RAF even make running at night schnorkeling a risky venture.

Maybe we can make one last big splash in the history books before we are retired, willingly or not. I would like to see Kiel again before I die.

VONHARRIS 12-07-10 02:53 AM

U-106 reporting back to base
 
This is our 11th patrol since the beginning of the war.
This time we were ordered to take our IXB to grid AE83 in the North frozen waters.
CAPTAIN'S LOG
Date and Time
Location
Occurrences
1.12.40.0133 Patrol 11
U-106, 2nd Flotilla
Left at: December 1, 1940, 01:33
From: Lorient
Mission Orders: Patrol grid AE87
3.12.40.1524 Grid 14Ship sunk! SS Prosper (Tramp Steamer), 1964 tons. Cargo: Scrap Metal. Crew: 25. Crew lost: 24 (sunk by deck gun fire)
4.12.40.1152Grid AM 75Ship sunk! SS Sea Fiddler (Large Cargo), 8576 tons. Cargo: Sugar. Crew: 35. Crew lost: 33 (lone ship 3 torpedoes)
11.12.40.1509Grid AE 47Ship sunk! Big 3Funnel Liner , 42511 tons (in convoy 2 torpedoes)12.12.40.0156Grid AE 48Ship sunk! HMS Dunvegan Castle (Auxiliary Cruiser), 13850 tons. Crew: 242. Crew lost: 43 (lone ship 2 torpedoes)
0158Grid AE 48Ship sunk! SS Bonifacio (Small Merchant), 2390 tons. Cargo: Grain. Crew: 37. Crew lost: 1 (lone ship 1 torpedo)
0218Grid AE 48Ship sunk! HMS Birmingham (Southampton class), 10725 tons. Crew: 975. Crew lost: 614 (in convoy 2 stern torpedoes)
19.12.40.0653 Patrol results
Crew losses: 0
Ships sunk: 6
Aircraft destroyed: 0
Patrol tonnage: 80016 tons
22 torpedoes fired
10 torpedoes hit and sunk the targets (45%)
3 torpedoes hit the targets but they didn't sink (13,6 %) Targets: Medium tanker + ore carrier
9 torpedoes missed (41,4%)
30 105mm rounds used
No AA fire

unterseemann 12-07-10 06:59 AM

U-151 type IID ( kptlt Rudolf Eickmeyer)
3re/11th flotilla La Rochelle.

Patrol 3: 26/02/44- 08/03/44

01/03/44: Grid BE65
6h30 am: Two ships convoy, american medium merchant and granville type ,unescorted, spotted by crew. Unable to attack but course and speed eyeballed (25-28°, 7.5-8kn). Plotted interception course
10h30 am: Good position. Fired one torpedo to each ship. Explosions heard after 1'10 min and 1'38 min. Both ship disabled.
10h47 Medium merchant sank bow first. 5176 tons
11h01 Granville type MV Vinemoor sank. 4707 tons

02/03/44: Grid BE38
7h00 pm: Fired a gnat and a TIII to a danish medium tanker. 1 impact amidships followed by massive explosion.
SS Jedmoor sank. 8792 tons

04/03/44: Grid BE39
01h32 pm: Fast intermediate tanker spotted, good attack position. Fired last torpedo. Solid impact but tanker stay afloat. Uboot then attacked at periscop depth by airplane. Severe flooding and damages, uncontroled dive to 106m, attack periscop destroyed. Eventually situation under control
09h10 pm: Tanker still afloat nearly sinking. Submerged approach then surfaced uboot in front of tanker meters from it. Shelled deck with AA guns then submerged
09h16 pm: Tanker sinking. MV Athene. 3490 tons

08/03/44 Back to La Rochelle

4 ships for 22.165 tons

Total carreer: 6 ships sunk for 37.671 tons

VONHARRIS 12-07-10 07:29 AM

U-106 12th patrol
 
U-106 12th patrol ended at the SS Belchen supply ship. Rearm and refuel to attack the convoys in the iced northen waters.
Patrol No 12 was not very good.
CAPTAIN'S LOG
Date and Time
Location
Occurrences
31.1.41.1131Patrol 12
U-106, 2nd Flotilla
Left at: January 31, 1941, 11:31
From: Lorient
Mission Orders: Patrol grid AD88
6.2.41.2255Grid AL 25Ship sunk! SS Adroity (Coastal Freighter), 1872 tons. Cargo: Sugar. Crew: 32. Crew lost: 29 (in convoy 2 torpedoes)
2338Grid AL 25Ship sunk! Old Passenger Ship, 2072 tons (in convoy 1 torpedo)
9.2.41.1646Grid AD 88Ship sunk! SS Aconcagua (Troop Transport), 8279 tons. Cargo: Passengers. Crew: 293. Crew lost: 43 (in convoy 3 torpedoes)
11.2.41.1808Grid AE 47Ship sunk! SS Margarita (Small Freighter), 2230 tons. Cargo: Coal. Crew: 22. Crew lost: 5 (lone ship 1 torpedo)
12.2.41.0546Grid AE 47Ship sunk! HMS Meynell (Hunt I class), 1000 tons. Crew: 150. Crew lost: 75 (lone ASW patrol 1 torpedo)
0728Grid AE 48Ship sunk! HMS Montclare (Auxiliary Cruiser), 13850 tons. Crew: 104. Crew lost: 80 (in convoy 2 torpedoes)
0751Grid AE 48Ship sunk! HMS Newcastle (Southampton class), 10725 tons. Crew: 885. Crew lost: 97 (in convoy 2 torpedoes)
17.2.41.2016
Patrol results
Crew losses: 0
Ships sunk: 7
Aircraft destroyed: 0
Patrol tonnage: 40028 tons

22 torpedoes fired
12 torpedoes hit and sunk their targets (54%)
3 torpedoes hit their target but they didn't sink (13,6%)
7 torpedoes missed (32,4%)
No deck gun or flak guns used
Weather too cold
Met icebergs on the way
Hoping to get some fresh food from the SS Belchen

Missing Name 12-07-10 04:15 PM

Patrol 14.

April 4, 1941. Time: 1810.
To: BdU.
From: U-127, Type IXB. Captain Ohne einen Namen.

Have struck mine in St. Helena Harbor. Heavy flooding, boat going down bow first. Attempting to blow. No casualties at this point.

==================================
Time: 1932.

Have managed to reach periscope depth while avoiding the enemy. Small scattered leaks. Main batteries severely damaged. Forward torpedo tubes non-functional. Periscope controls sluggish. No injuries except minor cuts and bruises.

==================================
Time: 1954.

Main batteries cannot be repaired with our current equipment. Cannot risk surfacing to correct periscopes. Torpedo tubes 1, 3, 4 have been restored.

==================================
Time: 2023.

Escorts are searching elsewhere. Have fired four torpedoes at two cruisers while retreating. Heading to rendezvous with KM Python.

==================================
Time: 2027.

3 definite torpedo impacts. Hull breaking noises on one cruiser.

==================================
April 5, 1941. Time: 2107.

Confused British radio chatter, unencrypted. One cruiser has sunk, one has heavy flooding.

==================================
April 7, 1941. Time: 0200.

External damage to boat appears lighter than expected.

==================================
April 7, 1941. Time: 1200.

Will meet KM Python shortly.

==================================
April 7, 1941. Time: 1530.

Am alongside supply ship, repairs have started. Requesting confirmation of two cruisers sunk, 21000 tons.

Gargamel 12-07-10 11:10 PM

Ok, dont go into New York unless you have a deck gun for defense against the fast moving boats.

I sank myself.

Yes that's right.

I sank myself.

With not one, but 2 acoustic torpedoes.

The stupid PT boat was dragging them both as he ran by me, and the eels thought I looked tastier.

VONHARRIS 12-08-10 02:54 AM

U-106 13th patrol
 
As the number indicates the patrol was a total disaster.
We have encountered many ASW enemy units mostly MTB and ASW trawlers.
We have attacked three enemy convoys , but the the second attack was fruitless. All 6 torps that were fired either missed or failed to explode or did not sikn their target. No ships sunk there!

CAPTAIN'S LOG
Date and Time
Location
Occurrences
18.2.41.0459Patrol 13
U-106, 2nd Flotilla
Left at: February 18, 1941, 04:59
From: Belchen Supply Ship
24.2.41.1430Grid AE 47Ship sunk! SS Rothesay Castle (Empire-type Freighter), 6958 tons. Cargo: Grain. Crew: 68. Crew lost: 66 (in convoy 1 torpedo)
1443Grid AE 47Ship sunk! SS Banderas (Small Freighter), 2231 tons. Cargo: Trucks. Crew: 24. Crew lost: 8 (in convoy 1 torpedo)
1855Grid AE 47Ship sunk! MV British Energy (Modern Tanker), 10762 tons. Cargo: Crude Oil. Crew: 70. Crew lost: 7 (in convoy 2 torpedoes)
25.2.41.1523Grid AE 47Ship sunk! MV Tandora (Small Tanker), 2051 tons. Cargo: Crude Oil. Crew: 22. Crew lost: 7 (lone ship 2 torpedoes)
28.2.41.1547Grid AD 59Ship sunk! MV Dodata (Intermediate Tanker), 3490 tons. Cargo: Crude Oil. Crew: 16. Crew lost: 10 (in convoy 1 torpedo)
1755Grid AD 59Ship sunk! SS Rhexenor (Large Merchant), 10616 tons. Cargo: Textiles. Crew: 83. Crew lost: 11 (in convoy 2 torpedoes)
5.3.41.2245
Patrol results
Crew losses: 0
Ships sunk: 6
Aircraft destroyed: 0
Patrol tonnage: 36108 tons

22 torpedoes fired
9 torpedoes sunk their targets (41%)
6 torpedoes hit their targets but they didn't sink (28%) Targets : Large merchant - Ammunition ship - Modern tanker
7 torpedoes missed (31%)
We have returned to SS Belchen to rearm and refuel.
Our next patrol will be to the same area. The British seem to have learned their lesson. They are more cautious now and their convoys are heavily escorted , 7 - 8 escorts every time.

kaleun69 12-08-10 03:53 AM

Restarted career in a type II september 1939. Trying to play as realisitic as absolutley possible. At this stage of the war, the 1930 london protocals were still in place... IE a ship must be stopped and visited unless known to be transporting troops, engaged in enemy activity, or under escort.

Well, a Type II with a max speed of 13 knots, and only a AA gun and small crew will have a very hard time stopping a faster cargo ship.

On 9-12-39 picked up a sonar contact of a merchant ship. I head towards it, just to take a look. Once I surface the watch crew immediatly pick up a patrol boat in the vicinity. I can use this to claim the target is under escort. I submerge and work out the targeting on the Medium cargo ship. At long range (4700 meters). I fire 2 torps, one either malfunctions or misses, but #2 hits! I recalculate and fire a 3rd, at about 4100 meters as the patrol boat is bearing down on my periscope. Hit! I dive to 25 meters and change coarse. The merchant goes down maybe 30 - 40 minutes later.

Anyway, I think this is the longest range shot Ive ever pulled off in SH III. Over 3 miles! Got a screenie of the distant impact from my scope.

On Sept 24th '39 the rules will change, Uboats are allowed to sink any ship broadcasting SSS. So.. I will model that by allowing me to close to the target, and once evasive action is taken, It will be within the rules to shoot.

ps.. Im re-reading Clay Blairs epic Hitlers Uboat war books, which is why Im replaying yet another Uboat campaign.:)

VONHARRIS 12-08-10 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gargamel (Post 1549178)
Ok, dont go into New York unless you have a deck gun for defense against the fast moving boats.

I sank myself.

Yes that's right.

I sank myself.

With not one, but 2 acoustic torpedoes.

The stupid PT boat was dragging them both as he ran by me, and the eels thought I looked tastier.

Do not ever engage fast torpedo boats with deck or AA gun. You might sink them but you will sustain heavy damages and crew losses from their machine guns.
Why did you fire a torpedo against it and especially an acoustic one? The torpedo is more expensive than the target itself and moreover it is slower than a MTB. A MTB travelling at 30 - 40 kts is not a torpedo target. Dive and let it go. It has no sonar to pick you up submerged.

Gargamel 12-08-10 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VONHARRIS (Post 1549302)
Do not ever engage fast torpedo boats with deck or AA gun. You might sink them but you will sustain heavy damages and crew losses from their machine guns.
Why did you fire a torpedo against it and especially an acoustic one? The torpedo is more expensive than the target itself and moreover it is slower than a MTB. A MTB travelling at 30 - 40 kts is not a torpedo target. Dive and let it go. It has no sonar to pick you up submerged.

Well, errrrrrrrrr....... B trying to infiltrate NY in April 45. Only had acoustics. And in about 15m. Water. Surface is not where I wanted to be, but I didnt have a choice. Had Perfect weather too. Medium seas, overcast, decent fog. Was hoping their radar would think I was a tug or something.

Axeman3d 12-08-10 01:27 PM

Do you know the difference between clever and wise? A clever man thinks up ways to try and get out of situations a wise man didn't get into in the first place. Why the hell were you trying to take on New York harbour single handed that late in the war?

VONHARRIS 12-08-10 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gargamel (Post 1549459)
Well, errrrrrrrrr....... B trying to infiltrate NY in April 45. Only had acoustics. And in about 15m. Water. Surface is not where I wanted to be, but I didnt have a choice. Had Perfect weather too. Medium seas, overcast, decent fog. Was hoping their radar would think I was a tug or something.

Does this mean that you took a XXI to NY harbor at April 1945?
I think that your navigation officer's name is Bernard.

VONHARRIS 12-08-10 03:37 PM

U-106 14th patrol
 
This is U-106 14th patrol
CAPTAIN'S LOG
Date and Time
Location
Occurrences
6.3.41.1110Patrol 14
U-106, 2nd Flotilla
Left at: March 6, 1941, 11:10
From: Belchen Supply Ship
12.3.41.0655Grid AE 47Ship sunk! HMS Kingston Andalusite (ASW Trawler), 1100 tons. Crew: 55. Crew lost: 13
0700Grid AE 47Ship sunk! HMS Defender (C&D classes), 1375 tons. Crew: 175. Crew lost: 115
14.3.41.0446Grid AE 47Ship sunk! SS Port Auckland (Ore Carrier), 8083 tons. Cargo: Phosphates. Crew: 90. Crew lost: 37
0626Grid AE 47Ship sunk! RMS Empress of Britain, 42913 tons
0628Grid AE 47Ship sunk! Big 3Funnel Liner , 42511 tons
0629Grid AE 47Ship sunk! MV San Alberto (Large Tanker), 9677 tons. Cargo: Aviation Fuel. Crew: 39. Crew lost: 5
0641Grid AE 47Ship sunk! SS Martina (Nipiwan Park-type Tanker), 2476 tons. Cargo: Aviation Fuel. Crew: 23. Crew lost: 11
0642Grid AE 47Ship sunk! SS Royalite (Coastal Freighter), 1869 tons. Cargo: Bauxite. Crew: 33. Crew lost: 25
0707Grid AE 47Ship sunk! MV Teakwood (Modern Tanker), 10762 tons. Cargo: Aviation Fuel. Crew: 65. Crew lost: 24
0713Grid AE 47Ship sunk! MV Lustrous (Modern Tanker), 10761 tons. Cargo: Gasoline. Crew: 72. Crew lost: 51
0824Grid AE 47Ship sunk! SS Port Hunter (Ore Carrier), 8085 tons. Cargo: Coal. Crew: 74. Crew lost: 22
24.3.41.0425 Patrol results
Crew losses: 0
Ships sunk: 11
Aircraft destroyed: 0
Patrol tonnage: 139612 tons
I didn't count the torpedoes this time.
U-107 returned at Lorient with one bow torpedo left.

Gargamel 12-08-10 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axeman3d (Post 1549557)
Do you know the difference between clever and wise? A clever man thinks up ways to try and get out of situations a wise man didn't get into in the first place. Why the he'll were you trying to take on New York harbour single handed that late in the war?

Never said it was a good idea, LOL. Cause it was fun, until i shot myself.

Thought I could sink anything that came at me with acoustics. shrug. live and learn.

Or die and learn in this case.

Arnold 12-08-10 10:56 PM

In our 1st patrol, a lesson was learned on our return trip home. While NE of Scotland, in heavy seas and heavy fog, we located a C-2 British ship. We were able to match speed and follow her by her stern while she zig/zagged. Due to the heavy fog, we were unable to observe the target for a shot when we were in a forward position.
Returning to Kiel at night, after sinking four enemy merchants, was awesome! A pair of blinking lights welcomed us, and guided us from a distance as we approached the pens! A few turns, and we back into the empty pen.
Medals were awarded to officers and a warrant officer. One warrant officer made a radioman rate.
After replacing our hydrophone set with a different one, we set sail on our 2nd patrol with the same officers and crew. Enroute to our patrol area, we encounter several neutral Norwegian ships and one unknown ship whose flag is hidden by the smoke from it's funnel. Better safe than sorry, I chose caution, and let her continue on her voyage.
Our boat settles down to a daily routine. As we approach Scotland, we stay submerged during the daytime, and surface at night to re-charge our batteries. Our patrol area is much further South than our 1st patrol area.
I've instructed our Chief Engineer to keep a close eye on our fuel reserves. The men are in good morale. Our journey continues....

Gargamel 12-09-10 12:22 AM

Woohooo this is fun, trying to sheppard foreign ships into the shore with a type II prewar.

Axeman3d 12-09-10 04:45 AM

U104 heading out on third patrol from Lorient in late Nov 1940. Patrol area is east of the Azores covering the South African convoy route, so head straight across the Bay of Biscay to designated square and patrol fruitlessly for a week. I turned north and followed the convoy route up on the edge of the Bay, submerging for long periods to escape the foul weather that has hit the area.

While submerged I pick up a convoy on the phones heading for the English Channel at 9 knots, but am in poor position for attack and chasing in foul weather will take ages. I decide on a long shot and fire 4 torps at extreme range at the 2 largest targets. Two explode prematurely, spooking the convoy who start to zig and speed up. One torp hits and eventually sinks an ore carrier as I evade west again. I plot a route to try and shadow the convoy but am unable to regain contact at all the next day.

Weather worsens, now very hard to make any progress. I submerge for long periods and again pick up a merchant passing nearby. On the surface for attack in black moonless night so i can get close, notice it's actually 2 ships, a small merchant and an ore carrier in front. I switch off magnetic triggers and use the stern tubes at 900m range on fast speed to ensure impact, and both ships are hit. The ore carrier goes down in 20 minutes leaving a trail of life rafts behind it, but the merchant didn't even slow down. As it passed the sinking ore carrier I reload the stern tube and put another one in him, this time with spectacular results. Lots of flames and he goes down in a minute, lots of secondary explosions as it slips under. One life raft spotted. Now continuing north to Ireland and then the Western Approaches.


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