Hi, still having problems switching guns from radar controlled back to normal, it just wont do it.

I have just done a test in the new build released this afternoon, build 9578079.

This game gets better every minute. Uboats start to behave nicely :up:

Once the DD presses the attack they start evasive maneuvers instead kamikazing into the convoy. They now zig-zag when the DD is in the terminal run and they change depth more frecuently when evading.
Even one time the submarine surfaced and tried to run away in surface.
Apparently they also slow down and speed up to avoid the attack. AWESOME :Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:

All in all, a different game from the first version. :Kaleun_Party:

I have managed to skink both subs after much work and effort this time and just because they still have the tendency to remain shallow most of the time.
In any case fantastic improvement.

Just some additional notes from this test.
The pop up window showing the attack on the sub is "ugly" with the text about what ship is attacking what. And besides this there is a problem when you have AI attacking an different sub than yours, several times when I did my pass to drop on "my tgt" the pop-up window showed the "other sub" instead mine. Actually I was not able to see the impact of my DC that killed one of the subs I was attacking because it was showing the other sub.

I have used the "custom battle" and selected Noon and Storm weather. The visuals there were not espectacular, specially the "sub pop-up window that had ugly sea surface colour very light.

Another issue was that I was attacking and killing one sub by myself but the announcement and the kill in the Contacts screen was given to another eescort that was not even engaging the sub.

Some additional comments would be. During fog scenarios or when ships are in "collision course" it would be nice to have collision "horns" to give more inmersion.
Another inmersion touch would be to have different types of merchant ships. As far as I could see all the merchants are the same model (Maybe I have missed some variations) Could be nice to have a mixture of different types including tankers or just cargo ships and including troop transports...maybe large warships to protect :03:

Everyday this is getting better and better. My fears about this becoming just a shooting sandbox are gone and I am looking forward for the release version that I will pre-purchase the minute becomes available. :yeah:

Beta to ea
 

Im now interested to know what differences there will be between the beta and the EA game ?

While I would also love to have more info from the developers, there are already some nice hints about upcoming features that you can see when you finish a mission in the actual Beta.
The way this is evolving and the aexcellent response from the developters to the community feedback, makes me think that this is just the begining of something really awesome.

https://i.postimg.cc/0QBvczrZ/EA-DD.jpg

That's a really great idea about the collision/fog horns! Would really add ambiance to the situation.


Disagree, I really like having the content of the popup labelled. :arrgh!:

The sub is still doing maneuvers that are borderline impossible. I've included two screenshots showing me tracking a sub with sonar.

The first picture is the initial intercept, and shows my destroyer trying to line up for a good drop after missing the initial intercept opportunity. Right before I get that opportunity, the sub goes into a hard left turn, and you can clearly see his turn radius versus my maximum turn radius.

https://i.imgur.com/8xP3tK8.jpeg

He can turn in less than 1/2 of my maximum turn radius capability. I started my turn as soon as I got the call he was in a sharp turn, but there's no way my depth charges can get over him if he's turning like that.
How are we expected to sink uboats if they can turn like this doing speeds of 8 knots (see my previous post where I showed that a submerged sub will constantly go 8 knots)?

I don't even think they can physically turn that tight, especially at 8 knots. I've never been on a submarine, but out of all the sub games I've played (Dangerous Waters, Cold Waters, Wolfpack, Uboat, Silent Hunter, etc.), I've never seen a sub that can do that.

Later on in the hunt, the sub performed a very sharp right turn before going into another full circle turn inside of my much larger turn radius.

https://i.imgur.com/RmZtshl.jpeg

I just don't know how the average player who has never touched another naval combat sim is expected to be able to sink a u-boat with these kinds AI maneuverability characteristics.

Is it just me? Or are other closed-beta testers finding the sub to be a little too maneuverable?

Totally agree about sub manoeuvres and it's totally un realistic I've read loads of U-boat books seen dasboot 10 times over looked at wiki and played all the games, this needs changing by the devs before releasing as its totally unrealistic and will turn serious gamers off.

I am sorry to disagree with this but this is an extremely well documented historical fact.
A Type VII would out turn a Fletcher destroyer class dramatically.
Actually a Fletcher class was considered a real bad turning platform and there was even talks in the past that an Iowa Class battleship would out turn a Fletcher

LINK Pacific War Online Enciclopedia. Fletcher Class DD

In the other hand we do have the own US Navy assessment of the Type VII
turn capabilities.

LINK U-Boat Archieve Type VII analisis See pages 17, 19 and 19

So while a Fletcher class was supposed to have a turn radius of 700 meters at fast speed, the U-Boat could manage a turning circle of 270 meters at flank.

The problem of the Fletcher was that it was initially designed with a single rudder and it has a relatively long lenght.

http://www.norton.co.uk/images/produ...0-65537700.jpg

Other Destroyer escorts of smaller size or the small flower class corvetes has a better turning circle but none of then matched the U-boat capabilities even close.
The Type VII had twin rudder directly in the propeller flow

http://www.bluebird-electric.net/sub...e_das_boot.JPG

Sinking U-Boats with depth charges (Rail and trowers) was extemely dificult, battles lasted 5 to 10 hours and the main tactic was to force the sub to run out of bateries or compressed air.
The future developement fo the Hedgehog would turn the tables because the sub captain could not identify that the DD was making the overpass to drop charges showing the moment to make a radical turn /speed /depth maneuver.

Actually I find the game now too easy, since the last two patches I am consistenly sinking all subs I find, just because they remain at shallow making my life easier. I can easily predict the sub possition even when turning for a 10 sec period (time for shallow DC to reach tgt) but if he goes deep, the more than 1 minute for the DC to get there, is sufficient for the sub to evade them nicely. So the fact the sub remains most of the time at shallow is the "unrealistc" thing while turn radius is historically accurate.

One of the limitations the developers should take into account is that battery life and availability of compressed air were the main factors a sub captain had to take into account. Normally no sub arrived to the convoy with just freshly charged and warm batteries at 100% capacity and he had to preserve them since he had no clue how long he would have to fight underwater.
As Neal mentioned in another post, the battery life at flank was expected to be 45 minutes to 1 hour. Compressed air was also used when making dramatic depth changes.

In real life DD just forced the sub to run and expend those comodities in order to force him to surface. A conservative U-boat captain that manages his resources is something we still do not have in the game.

Another element that needs tweaking is the acceleration /deceleration ratio for the submarine and for the destroyer. They accelerate and decelerate way too fast. The powerplant technology at the time did not allow for such fast speed changes. Ships need time to build speed and to slow down.
But I am happy with the turning capabilities of the sub.

There is a nice video here that explains this better than me

https://youtu.be/tyJ1JAjGek8

I definitely have to agree with Furia, I have played the game for about 28+ hours now. Yes, the U-boats turn tighter than the DD, that's not only historical, but without it, there wouldn't be much of a game.

I think after you have played the game more, you will see what I mean. We have radar to start the hunt, then we can get within sonar range before they dive. So, we usually get sonar contact quickly. If we don't get sonar contact then we can spot their periscope feather half the time. It's not too difficult to hammer the sub non-stop. So, we don't want the sub to be any less maneuverable than historical subs were.

A lot of time I would have a string of contacts, make an approach and the sub outguesses me, turns and sprints enough to avoid my DCs. That's ok, because I know he cannot keep that up forever. As long as the game makes the speed/duration of batteries historically realistic as well... ha, I am making his life hell just keeping him under.

A U-boat commander would use every trick he could to stay alive. He knows when a DD is after him. He knows what the DD commander is trying to do. So a U-boat commander will vary speeds, depths. He may creep at a battery-saving 2 knots until the DD is closing, then order hard rudder, full aster to one screw and full ahead to the other, pivot (or close to a pivot), then all all ahead full and hope the DD player did not change his attack approach at the last minute.

I have had U-boats turn away sharply at the last minute. I've also had then turn right into my path... then my DC attack usually strikes hard.

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/att...6&d=1664114474


https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/att...4&d=1664114458

Yes, all the sources that I have been able to tap into pointed to the fact that the type VIIC was much more agile than the Fletcher, and that the latter's turning radius was about twice as large. First, the VIIC was built to be very nimble, hence the double rudder setup. And as for the Fletcher, I remember when I asked about it at the USS KIDD Veterans' Museum, they said that its turning capabilities were quite bad for a destroyer, more towards an aircraft carrier than a typical DD.

IMHO, the Tutorial should pause the game during the pop-up texts until the player hits a continue button.


:salute:

They misspelled U-boat. (I know U-boot might be technically correct, but the name of the game is referred to as "The U-BOAT hunter" everywhere else.)

I'll also note in-game, on the depth charge camera, they misspelled Bloodhound as "Blodhound"

Literally unplayable.

Kidding.

I'm nitpicking here, but I don't really like how you can see the Sonarman's shadow on the "TRR cam" picture in picture thing. It's really distracting and the window is small enough as it is, it's hard to see the dotted line and such and concentrate when the sonarman's darn head is in between the light and the TRR, especially since he's doing his "idle animation" and shuffling around a bit.

One other nitpick. I'm not trying to upset the voice actor who likely put in a ton of work recording the lines, but some takes of Mountie could maybe be re-done. He sounds very unenthusiastic and he says "yards" like "yards?" as if he's asking a question. The other voices are fine, it's just Mountie that seems a bit off. It's not a big deal and maybe as I hear his voice more I'll get used to it, but it sounds a bit odd.

It does.

No. The game continues to run in the background while the player reads the instructions, and in the attack phase, the orders and events are out of sync because in the time the player reads, the submarine and the destroyer are still moving. Just a suggestion, nothing too important. :up:

I guess I read fast :ping: