SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - [REL] Fall of the Rising Sun Ultimate, full release

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How accurate are the named-vessel models supposed to be in terms of their size and draft?

The reason I am asking is that the model for the NCV Hiryu has a much deeper draft than the real vessel and may need to be edited to sit higher in the water and have its texture changed to lower the waterline. The wiki states she had a draft of 7.8m but the Blender model measures at 9.1m which is somewhat deeper than the other CVs I have tackled so far.

In addition the NCV Akagi had a real draft of 8.7m but the Blender model measures shallower at 7.8. No paint job would be needed on that one as it already sits with the paint line at or below the water.

The NCV Enterprise was supposed to sit at 7.9m but the Blender model is slightly shallower at 7.1m.

At the end of the day is it more important just for the game stats to be correct as per the model so we can hit the damned things or are they supposed to be fairly accurate tributes to the actual vessels?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbcrutch12 (Post 2677104)

Hey! I hate to lose that save but as I've already started a new one with the patch it is what it is. I hope my info helps iron out some of the issues. I'm glad folks like you take the time to make mods like this, it's way out of my depth! and for the record the mission was the "Proceed to area 7 and standby for further orders."

Thanks for all your help!

my apologies i have been busy with work.
what is or was the original issue?
i looked backward through the posts and i cannot find it which is probably more my problem than it is yours.
i would be glad to put another pair of eyes on a dotMIS file.

:Kaleun_Salute:

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanielCoffey (Post 2677140)

How accurate are the named-vessel models supposed to be in terms of their size and draft?
Oh, they are supposed to be spot-on :roll:
The reason I am asking is that the model for the NCV Hiryu has a much deeper draft than the real vessel and may need to be edited to sit higher in the water and have its texture changed to lower the waterline. The wiki states she had a draft of 7.8m but the Blender model measures at 9.1m which is somewhat deeper than the other CVs I have tackled so far.
If you look at the model, as it sits in the display, you might notice sometimes that the little blue,green,red node indicator for the whole ship model is shifted forward, and sometimes downward or upward. The CA Furutaka sat so high for the longest time, you had to set for DD depth... not cool. Some of the models have that issue. Others are just drawn slightly off.
In addition the NCV Akagi had a real draft of 8.7m but the Blender model measures shallower at 7.8. No paint job would be needed on that one as it already sits with the paint line at or below the water. The NCV Enterprise was supposed to sit at 7.9m but the Blender model is slightly shallower at 7.1m.
Several of the merchants are like this...
At the end of the day is it more important just for the game stats to be correct as per the model so we can hit the damned things or are they supposed to be fairly accurate tributes to the actual vessels?

At the end of the day, I don't care about "historical" when it comes to targeting a vessel. It is difficult enough as it is with the stadimeter in the game to hit something. Being off by one pixel at the wrong time can really mess you up (especially me), so I would say that we have a game here, and to set the figures to what the model shows. There is a setting in the cfg files for "variation" for the draft, plus if a person puts in a "duds" mini-mod, there will be plenty enough misses without having the "draught" of a vessel showing 10 feet deeper than it really is in the game, and then the torpedo goes 25 deeper than that... However, it is ~your~ mod, so if you want historical, it will be "historical" then... :yeah:

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco (Post 2677151)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbcrutch12 (Post 2676808)

So I haven't played SH4 in years but got the hankering a few days ago. I downloaded and installed the game plus the FORTSU mod. Played a few days and everything was great. Starting my 3rd patrol, 65k or so total tonnage over the first 2, not staggering but I'm old and out of practice. Anyway, today, my save games refuse to load. The bar fills up, it looks like it's going to, and then it just sits. I hate to lose my save game but whatever, my bigger concern is getting invested in another start and then this happening again. If anyone can help that'd be awesome as I've been having a blast the last couple of days. Thanks a lot!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbcrutch12 (Post 2677018)

Hey! Thanks for taking the time to answer! I do have LAA properly activated. I know as I was originally getting CTD after I installed before I activated the LAA.

I do not have the patch you linked applied at this time. I tried to do it just now but got a CTD. It may be me failing to install it properly, if you could help there that would be great. Modding isn't a strong suit of mine, or really any suit.

Edit: I applied the patch through JSGME and I think I have it done correctly. I'm not sure how to tell though. I can start a new game but my saves are still dead.

As for my orders, I had done 2 normal objectives, perform patrol in the circled area for 3-5 days or whatever. Sank a merchant or 2 in each area before radioing in. I received orders to head to another area, with no circle, just the marker, and standby for further orders. My save was made as I was headed to that area.

Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbcrutch12 (Post 2677064)

Actually I remember exactly although I'm not really sure why? It was "Sector 7" just NE of Takanabe. The lat/long of the star would be about 132°10'E and 32°3'N.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbcrutch12 (Post 2677104)

He might have blown the Save folder away already, but if he still has it, maybe you can walk him through finding the ID number of his assignment, which should be ID=ID143 for Sink Honshu 04 - Give him something like Patrol Honshu 04, ID=ID57, and see if it will start back up that set of Saves... if he still has it, please.
:salute:

Quote:

Originally Posted by propbeanie (Post 2677155)

yes, i agree with you. the mission is either Sink Honshu 4 or Patrol Honshu 4.

@dbcrutch12 - what message was in the middle of the blue pennant?
if it said: Patrol Area then your mission was Patrol Honshu 04.
if it said: Waypoint then your mission was Sink Honshu 04.

from what you said in your last post, it sounds as if you have restarted your mission so the information above will not be of much help.

you also posted that you were not sure if you applied the FOTRSU mod properly. if you launch SH4 and FOTRSU is applied, you will see a FOTRSU splash screen as your first graphic. otherwise, you will see the standard SH4 splash screen. before we go any further, let's confirm this.
please launch JGSME, go to Tasks, Export activated mods list, to Clipboard. then paste that result into your reply here.
:Kaleun_Salute:

He did have the "Sink" mission, since it told him to proceed immediately to the area and standby for further orders... I suggested switching the assignment to the "Patrol" style to get him going, in case the assignment was the issue with the failed Load...

Quote:

Originally Posted by propbeanie (Post 2677094)

This is why:

https://i.imgur.com/3pQO8Sl.jpg

with your description of where you were, which Bungo Suido or Bungo Straits would have worked also, but the more detail we get, the closer we can get to finding where you were when an issue is encountered. In this case, I can now look at the boat assignments in the Flotillas file, making certain all the "I"s are dotted, and the "T"s crossed, with proper use of white space and commas and colons... Then I can go look in the PatrolObjectives file, based upon the call from the Flotillas file, and make certain there aren't anymore typos in that file, of which we did find a half-dozen just the other day, based upon another user's report. We may well have already fixed what you have encountered, and I might have decided that it is not a CTD-bringer, but it is apparently... After you have the patch applied though, if you have a Save prior to docking after your 2nd patrol, you could use that, and be able to then continue. Otherwise, unless you know how to find the assignment in the Save folder files, and properly correct it (I usually ruin my Save data whenever I try), you would have to "do over"... sorry. KaleunMarco and a few others are old-hands at doing stuff like that, but I am worse than inept...

The use of "high" TC (what is considered "high" in this game??) can and does cause issues with all aspects of the game, resulting in some odd behavior. However, 1024x was long considered as "safe" in SH4, except on the weakest of machines, and 2048x used to be FotRSU's highest setting, then raised to 4096x. I do not recall what it is now... I do not go over 2048x myself, because I have had unexplained issues during testing when going higher. This is most likely a function of my machine's set-up. This is an old Core2Duo, quad-core at 2.something GHz with 8gig of RAM and 2x (plus) WD Black 7200 rpm hard drives and an nVidia GTX 560Ti video card, going into a 1920x1080 LCD monitor. I have seen things "flash" for that brief moment in time while in higher TC, and when I finally get my finger on the <Backspace> key and look, I have taken damage and the enemy is gone - whatever it was... But, I have also found that when I have been sighted by an airplane, that it might be a couple of days before I get "contacts" again. I did not think that was "modeled" in the game, but it sure seems like it sometimes. One last point though, is that it is very difficult to balance the campaign for the "in between" periods, where the game goes from the 42a to the 42b to the 43a layer, etc, and you can have "quiet" periods between the end of Feb 1942 to mid-March, again between Sept 1942 to mid October 1942, etc... :salute:

A few questions about the target recognition manual

I understand that there's always been issues with the target recognition manual in that ships can't be classified as accurately as one would like.

I did notice that the Destroyer Escort Kaya Class is in among the merchants. It also shows in the ID book as a Troop Transport. Is that an issue that can be corrected? It seems like it should be classed as an IJN warship, no?

I'm not complaining, but thought I'd mention it in case it was simply the result of typos somewhere along the way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by propbeanie (Post 2677155)

At the end of the day... I would say that we have a game here, and to set the figures to what the model shows. There is a setting in the cfg files for "variation" for the draft

I agree and will simply list what the model shows unless I come across one that seems hugely off.

As for the "variation" you mentioned, the setting in the config file seems to be for displacement (tonnage) not draft (depth) unless it indirectly affects the draft if the displacement is over or under the stock value?

Re: Ship drafts...

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanielCoffey (Post 2677217)

Do recall, in some ship recognition manuals, that there were 2 ship info's, on the exact same ships (sometimes....)
like 1:

T3 Tanker

then followed up by same ship, different tag:

T3 Tanker(E) ( Note, the (E), I'm inferring here, being a signifier of it being empty perhaps...and recall as I said, of some manuals reflecting this type of tagging... )

Not to put too fine a point on it here, as I don't want to derail the thread.. but... it is hoped you are taking that into account, what with the work you're doing DanielCoffey..??

Ships, do ride differently in the seas, depending on their load out status, higher up/ less water underneath the keel = unloaded aka empty... loaded down with their load limit, they ride hunkered down into the water, meaning more deeper draft.

I would be seriously impressed if the game modelled that (I am too new to know if it does or not).

All I can do is go off the dimensions of the model in Blender taking into consideration the 0,0,0 origin point of the model. It seems to be accurate for most in that the paint line follows the water line more or less but there were a few oddities that I raised for folks here to clarify.

I think that some of the CV models share the same hull for modelling convenience (Hiyo/Taiho) but have varying superstructure. This gives rise to small differences in length and draft when compared to the historic vessels but as long as what we input in the TCC is correct then we should hear the booms (or clangs in the case of the Mk14 of course).

The Kaya is NOT a destroyer, it is a 2nd-class DD re-fit as a "Fast Transport" that carries Daihatsu barges for "on-the-go" launching. As such, it does carry guns, like all of the other transports do. You will not see it performing DD duties due to its importance as a troop transport, and you do NOT want to lose the troops to a marauding submarine - you let the escorts do that, while the transports keep on getting on... hence the designation as a troop transport. I wish we had a better model of a "Fast Transport", even though they didn't get to participate much, but they were similar in purpose to the US LST vessel. Think of the Kaya as an APD Manley class transport for the US.

As for loading variations, the game attempts a slight attempt at that, but it is not based upon being loaded or unloaded, just in the "DisplacementVariation=" found in the "Sea / ShipName / ShipName.cfg" file. The variation just amounts to the tonnage. I doubt, but am not certain if it affects where the ship "sits" in the water. You couldn't move most of them much and still have them able to do sea-keeping in even slightly rough weather, since a few of them cannot...

To truly simulate a loaded versus unloaded ship, you would need to full-clone a ship, and vary their "center" on the water. Then drive yourself nuts trying to "balance" not only the look, but the sea-keeping as well, ~then~, my favorite part - drive yourself bonkers incorporating them in the Campaign files... :o - no thanks, especially since, as you noted there Mad Mardigan, there would then be two entries in the RecMan for each ship, and even a person with the patience of DanielCoffey would throw his arms up from sheer frustration with the sil files... :arrgh!: :salute:

Are the Leaderboards in FotRSU historically accurate?

Just out of curiosity I googled a few of the names that appear on the leader-boards and found that they were real-life submariners.

However if you read their exploits which are detailed pretty well on Wikipedia their reputed tonnage in-game is quite a bit higher than what their wikipedia accounts claim.

:har: Those were the figures they used during the war. Don't forget about the fish stories! "I swear! It was six foot long, and blue eyes! Somehow, it slipped the hook!" But seriously, if you consult Silent Victory, you see there was a large difference between what a sub reported, and what the JANAC actually gave them credit for after the war. Generally speaking, probably all of the skippers had their totals but by at least a third, some by a half. Of course, sometimes, we could blame the sonarman for the issue, since they relied upon him to tell them "The screws have stopped! I hear breaking-up noises", but a look to see could not be done due to escort activity up-top. Well, it sounded like it sank... What has been assumed by most, is that the torpedoes hit, the ship was damaged, and may have suffered secondary explosions, but damage control put the fire out, and they were either able to continue on, or were towed. Or, more than likely, a good portion of the torpedoes pre-matured and / or ran erratic, and it gave the impression of a ship in trouble. :salute:

Re: 2 ship tagged RecMan.. reply...

Quote:

Originally Posted by propbeanie (Post 2677283)

Yeah, that would make even Me bonkers, after a bit.. :D (probably to the point that the I love Myself brigade would be ' comin' to take Me away.. ha ha he he.. he he '... :har:

That aside, I did mention that I recalled other RecMan's, from past mega's (from SH3, 1 @ least from SH4, that I can recall... an NOT sure about with SH5, seeing as how I'm relatively noob fodder there, with it, thus far... :D ).

Some additional questions...

1) About Special Abilities... Do crew members still acquire special abilities in FotRSU?

I've now completed my 5th Patrol and so far the only special ability crewman I've got is the officer who can recharge batteries quickly.

2) Am I correct that there's no multi-player version of SH4?

I recently noticed that it was listed as multi-player on the Steam website but I've never heard anything about it here in these forums. I have heard that there was Beta-Release of Silent Hunter On-Line that Ubisoft was attempting to develop back in 2013 but it never left the beta phase and the last server was shutdown in 2016.

3) Is there a way to take a Steam Screenshot in FotRSU?

I know that anything outside the SH4 realm risks angering the CO2 gods but I see that folks have posted screenshots on Steam from this game. Steam doesn't seem to want me to do that... I CAN post artwork (Screenshots which I capture using Greenshot)

4) Are there any refueling ships in the FotRSU mod?

The very first time I played this game I played the (Stock) U-Boat campaign and I took the advanced sub with the Werther drive as soon as it was available. I kept getting assignments that were outside my patrol range no matter what seed I traveled at. And there were no re-fueling ships available. Yet when I watched One F Jef's Let's Play on You-tube as a U.S. Skipper he ran into a U.S. refueling ship early on. It always seemed kinda boneheaded that the U-Boat missions couldn't be better coordinated with the refueling ships. It's been a few years and my memory is getting a bit hazy but that's my story and I'm stickin to it!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Havan_IronOak (Post 2677640)

Chiefs have a small chance of acquiring a special ability (15%).
JO's have a bit better chance (30%)
LT's are guaranteed one special. but a boat would have only one or two LT's.

Quote:

2) Am I correct that there's no multi-player version of SH4?
I recently noticed that it was listed as multi-player on the Steam website but I've never heard anything about it here in these forums. I have heard that there was Beta-Release of Silent Hunter On-Line that Ubisoft was attempting to develop back in 2013 but it never left the beta phase and the last server was shutdown in 2016.

as far as i know, the SH4 1.5 Uboat mission version has a multiplayer capability.

Quote:

4) Are there any refueling ships in the FotRSU mod? The very first time I played this game I played the (Stock) U-Boat campaign and I took the advanced sub with the Werther drive as soon as it was available. I kept getting assignments that were outside my patrol range no matter what seed I traveled at. And there were no re-fueling ships available. Yet when I watched One F Jef's Let's Play on You-tube as a U.S. Skipper he ran into a U.S. refueling ship early on. It always seemed kinda boneheaded that the U-Boat missions couldn't be better coordinated with the refueling ships. It's been a few years and my memory is getting a bit hazy but that's my story and I'm stickin to it!

no.
however, if you play the OpMonsun/Dark Waters mega-mod, there are milch cows enabled. it is actually kinda neat the way Fifi built them into the game. when you are finished with FOTRSU, you should check it out.
good luck.
:Kaleun_Salute: