The problem is that skippers either used 0 or 90, not intermediate angles. The british TDC could not update Gyro Angles "on the fly", instead they were set manually into the torpedo, and by default it was 0º. This is the reason why the captain asked for an attack course and the officer operating the TDC answered with the correct one. The Torpedo was not changed to aim at the target, instead it was the whole submarine what moved to aim at the enemy AFTER the captain had chosen the Gyro Angle he wanted to shoot with (Which was either 0 or 90º for simplicity purposes)!

In the sim right now the Torpedo's Gyro Angle is updated constantly, allowing you to shoot in any moment instead of waiting at the correct course for the precise angle, which is what british submariners did. And if they missed the exact moment to shoot their whole setup was ruined, something that won't happen right now because the Torpedo Gyro Angle will be updated by the TDC...

The problem is that we still need the TDC to calculate the lead angle for us, and it will not do it with a fixed angle torpedo, because in that case the Gyro Angle pointer becomes locked. We could use a printed table for easy 90º track angle shots, but that would mean that only being perpendicular to the target is valide for getting a correct solution, which is even more limited than what british submarines could do! And the utility of the TDc would be limited to somehow check the accurancy of your estimations. I'm afraid we are screwed :dead:

more T anyone
 

Hi all, happy new year to you all.

I've been tinkering with the T Class again, just can't put this boat down.

I have centralized the conning tower on the boat also raised it a tad to show the radio wires. The coning decking has also been raised and refitted with deck plating.
paint job is never ending, manky grey it said on the tin, heh

http://www.filefront.com/managefiles.php

sid


http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/3295/nighte.jpg

Hi Sid !

can you place a direct link to the file please ?

when I click I get to my ff files ...

keltos

Hi Keltos,

sorry bout that, hope this one works, filing systems are not a strong point with me.

sid

http://www.filefront.com/17756778/WD...refit-1.0.rar/

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/3295/nighte.jpg

The British report on HMS Graph (U-570) - January 1943 - mentions it:

http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570BritishReport.htm

Back to the problem at hand, which Keltos brought to my attention... I don't have more solutions than you guys. I should have thought about this one at some point and have the programmers ad some extra stuff to account for British practice, which was not completely unknown to me :(

I wonder if the firing button could be blocked when the gyro angle was different from a set of values?

from hitman :


http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/newr...eply&p=1556698

It's actually very easy with the US TDC, even if you set the torpedoes to the correct zero degree Gyro Angle. Here's how to do it:

1.- Determine target course, approximately, either by eyeballing AOB (To start) or plotting (Visual or radar). Get on a course that is perpendicular or, at least, something between 45º and 90º of the enemy track (So that the torpedo has enough angel of impact and does not make a dud)

2.- Feed the TDC with all the data, and start the position keeper. Make regular corrections as you see fit, by entering new data (New estimates of speed, distance, AOB, etc, as usual)

3.- Your reference for knowing when to shoot is the Gyro Angle needle on the "own ship" dial (The lower dial in the TDC). When that needle points exactly to the bow of the ship silhouette in the dial, you must shoot the torpedo. Why? Because at that moment the necessary Gyro Angle to hit the target is zero, which is exactly the only thing your torpedo is capable of :DL

That's more or less how the british TDC worked, only that when the GA was zero you also got an audible warning in the form of a bellring or buzz :up:

Many thanks for taking some time to consider the problem Dan :up:

Locking the fire button could be a solution, even if not a perfect one. If we can make it display the grayed-out graphic normally and highlight in red when the torpedo has a zero GA that would be somehow similar to the original buzzer and burning light in the Fruit Machine. :hmmm:

But I have no idea how to do that :damn:

Any suggestions on how to link the button graphic to the GA? :06:

If the own ship dial was stationary, we could maybe solve it by converting the GA pointer into a circular dial with a hole that shows the button and makes it available only when the dial comes to zero. But since the own ship dial also rotates, the pointer shows the zero GA in any part of it, so we would need to have the fire button rotate all around with it, which would be confusing :doh: and probably also impossible to do.

Hmmmmm another alternative, since the own ship must somehow point close to the target line of sight (Top of own ship dial) could be to have the ownship dial be larger and hide the fire button until the own ship dial aims close to the line of sight ... say some 45º either side :hmmm:

But again we would stumble against the same problem, i.e. we would be free to shoot any moment with an instant-GA update on the fly insde those -/+ 45º :damn:

Not to mention that I absolutely lack the skills for modifying the menu.ini to do the trick with the dials :shifty:

side note :

isn't there a british sub in SH5 ? is it the U class ? maybe we could get its model and add it to WDAD ?

keltos

There is an U-class in SH5 but its exported as gr2 which sh4 can't read.

SH5 can read dat files but the reverse isn't true.

too bad :(

well how's the Fruit machine going ? I will send you more data later today on how it works : got it from "one of our boats" by Edward Young.

regards

keltos

Hi all,

It is so great to see this MOD 'out on the water', and so much interest in it! The submarine campaign of the Royal Navy is one of the most fascinating of the entire war, and sadly, one that is all too often overlooked neglected.

I hope to see this MOD grow from strength to strength and can't wait for the Mediterranean Campaign!

In the meantime, for those of you who would like to know more, may I suggest the following great books, some of which have already been mentioned:

"One of our Submarines" - Edward Young
"One Man Band" AKA "Submarine Commander" - Ben Bryant
"The Stick and the Stars" - William King
"The Hunting Submarine" - Ian Trenowden
"The Fighting Tenth" - John Wingate
"Surface" - Alexander Fullerton (fiction)
"The Waiting Game" - Alexander Fullerton (fiction)
"Submariner" - Alexander Fullerton (fiction)

and many many more for those who would look...

The books by Alexander Fullerton are truly excellent as he served in HM Submarines during the war and really captures the atmosphere, the boredom, excitement and terror of being a RN submariner during the war.

Enjoy the books and the MOD!

Cheers.

Good list! Writing down.

Already read "one of our submarines" some years ago, and today i finished "Unbroken: The story of a submarine".

I also have "Hero of the Upholder" waiting on the shelf... :)

There is a U Class in WDAD that I found, conning and boat that are assigned to a NSS -s18 I believe, it looks like an unfinished project, by Lurker maybe. I have the obj file imported into 3dmax it looks really good.

I would really like to get a Med campaign up an running from Valetta with the UClass and Tclass from around June 1940 when Italy entered the war. There is so much online date about the RN submarine war in the Med that I can can't believe Ubi missed it as an Med missions add on. The only real issue as I see it is the lack of Italian war ships in the game, given that Italy had battleships, cruisers and over 100 submarines.

if anyone has idea's lets hear them please, I have made 2 small single missions but would like to take this a step further.

sid

i thought he was going to add it as a playable unit.. guess he didn't have time to then.

If you want I can do it, just send the files over ;)

then we can work our magic !

I still havent heard from JU_88's new high poly T class :(

but with help and a lot of faith we might get something akin to a fruit machine ! in that case it's really worthwhile to pursue a RN operations mod, either far east or against schooners in the med ;)

plus the fruit machine sounds a lot like a jap tdc....

keltos

Exactly those two I already readed, now trying to get for a reasonable price the one from Ben Bryant :wah:

There are literally dozens of italian warships done for SH3-GWX, seek the permissions to convert them and you are ready to go :up:

That's the main issue for me, once you understand how the fruit machine worked you can understand how much different was the birtish approach to a target and the tactics to sink them. The need to shoot with zero or rarely 90º GA determined most of what could and could not be done, etc.

I can't stop scratching my head to find a solution for this, would be a shame to let it in this state with just a graphic workover ...

I think the SOM Group have made a U-Class, it's available on the downloads section of their site http://www.six-oceans.ru

It's already in WDAD, and it looks superb :up:

good to know, thanks for continuing with this mod it's really great to have the British subs. :up: I've watched We Dive at Dawn too many times...

:oops::oops:

I only played the T...

opened the mod and saw all the boats :o

wow !

keltos

:nope: where is the U Class boat ? I can only play the T (which I love btw)

keltos