Tutorial: TDC Real Navigation-100% Realism by hawaiianhero (English)

hawaiian_hero · 03-15-16, 05:36 PM

Wolves of Steel mod (No Wind and Smoke) 100% realism

All you need in order to learn manual TDC using real navigation and charts.

Learn to kick ass in only 22 mins!

I made this video to give back to the community, and because I thought it would be fun

Hopefully this helps someone

THEBERBSTER · 03-15-16, 07:06 PM

A Warm Welcome To The Subsim Community > hawaiian_hero
Find Help & Useful Information In My SHIV & SHV Signature Thread Links.
Treat Yourself To The Wolves Of Steel Mega Mod <> SH5 The Dawn Of A New Beginning
The Wolves Of Steel Frequently Asked Questions + Campaign Fix In > FAQ’s & Game Tips (Please Look Here First Before Posting A Question)

A very useful tutorial that I have added to my tutorials list.
Glad you decided to show how the AOB was worked out.

vdr1981 · 03-16-16, 08:01 AM

That was a Cimaron class tanker actually but your ID mistake is compensated by small error in AoB and speed estimation...

Anyway, good work and thank you!

SH5 really needs stuff like this!

P.S.
AoB is the angle which would enemy watchmen report if he could spot your periscope. You only have to collect and enter data, TDC will do the rest...

palmic · 03-16-16, 08:50 AM

Good job, just one thing - i don't think zero gyro angle is so important as 90 degrees AoB, but if you have both it's ideal of course as many of your mistakes may be erased.

Great video anyway

hawaiian_hero · 03-18-16, 04:43 AM

Thanks for the feedback guys!

marce · 01-08-17, 04:24 AM

Hi guys!
I played SH2 and then SH3 when it released, but took a very long hiatus after encountering so many bugs in SH4 and getting disappointed.
Anyway, now I’m back catching up on LSH3, SH4-OM (so much goodness!) and of course SH5 WOS which is my current focus, because I love real navigation.

I watched many tutorials on the manual TDC and this one was quite helpful, thanks!
However, I still have a few questions/problems (sorry for hijacking the thread) so I hope somebody can give me some pointers:

My main problem are terrible stadimeter results. I currently have map contacts turned on to check my results with the correct values and I find my range measurements to be off by a lot, especially on long distances. I know about transferring the correct mast height and everything should be set up correctly. But, for example in the manual TDC training mission the first range measurement of the tanker I take reads 8850m while it is only about 6900m away, which is quite a difference. Now my question is if this is simply the tolerance of the stadimeter readings we must deal with or if I’m doing something wrong?
The second thing is that I haven’t found a manual TDC tutorial for a situation in which the sub is moving instead of stationary. I know in theory that we “only” have to offset our own movement vector, but it would be awesome if someone could point we to a tutorial/example where it is done correctly.
Thirdly, I quickly threw together this calculator yesterday which takes the same data I use for my solution and calculates the values mathematically (instead of constructing them) which in theory should be more precise if I didn’t mess up my trigonometry. I plan on using it to verify my own results until I feel confident. It would be nice if someone who knows how the numbers should look like could try my contraption and tell me if I’m even calculating the right stuff in the first place.
Lastly, is there a trick to take the torpedo speed into account? At the moment, I select the speed just on a gut feeling, but that can’t be right…

Thanks in advance!

palmic · 01-08-17, 05:18 AM

About your stadimeter: what display aspect ratio do you have? Do you installed some of aspect ratio mods which comes with twos?
I had the same problem on my 1920x1200 display until i start to use 8:5 optional twos mod.
Check twos installation documentation

Sent from phone

marce · 01-08-17, 05:21 AM

Hi palmic,

thanks for your response.
Yes I'm on 1920x1200 and have installed the 8:5 optional mod. It is giving me better results the closer the ship comes (say only ~200m off at 2000m range), but it's never spot on.

palmic · 01-08-17, 05:27 AM

Hmm.. Ok. I let the answer to vdr or someone else..

For your other questions, check links at bottom of this post

Sent from phone

vdr1981 · 01-08-17, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marce

Hi palmic,

thanks for your response.
Yes I'm on 1920x1200 and have installed the 8:5 optional mod. It is giving me better results the closer the ship comes (say only ~200m off at 2000m range), but it's never spot on.

This is the reason why people have invented laser range finders , GPS and similar gadgets . WW2 technology and "precision" just don't go hand to hand...

Someone correct me If I'm wrong but I don't see any possible way how WW2 crews could precisely measure the distances , especially if they were dealing with distant contacts.

marce · 01-08-17, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981

This is the reason why people have invented laser range finders , GPS and similar gadgets . WW2 technology and "precision" just don't go hand to hand...

Someone correct me If I'm wrong but I don't see any possible way how WW2 crews could precisely measure the distances , especially if they were dealing with distant contacts.

Yeah, a laser would be very handy

If that's the precision we get it's fine for me, just wanted to be sure I'm not doing something wrong messing up my shots.

palmic · 01-08-17, 07:00 AM

This precision is enough anyway, most kaleunen calculated solution just in head by sine with one decimal point and AOB degrees by tens. It's really enough

Everything what you have to set precisely is target speed.
Just try to shoot at your target as much at 90 AOB as possible

Sent from phone

kevinsue · 01-08-17, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981

This is the reason why people have invented laser range finders , GPS and similar gadgets . WW2 technology and "precision" just don't go hand to hand...

Someone correct me If I'm wrong but I don't see any possible way how WW2 crews could precisely measure the distances , especially if they were dealing with distant contacts.

That's why the real U-boat crews got in close and personal. 800 Meters range and 90° AOB was considered the optimal firing solution. At this range and position in relation to the target, any inaccurate targeting data entered into the TDC didn't have enough time to have a large influence on a successful outcome. From the various books I have read written by actual U-boat crew members, firing off a spread of 3 or 4 torpedoes at a single ship was not uncommon if they thought it would increase the chances of a successful attack.

palmic · 01-08-17, 08:20 AM

Yeah they were pretty wasting torpedoes, weren't they

Sent from phone

03-15-16, 05:36 PM	#1
hawaiian_hero Swabbie Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 9 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	Tutorial: TDC Real Navigation-100% Realism by hawaiianhero (English) Wolves of Steel mod (No Wind and Smoke) 100% realism All you need in order to learn manual TDC using real navigation and charts. Learn to kick ass in only 22 mins! I made this video to give back to the community, and because I thought it would be fun Hopefully this helps someone Last edited by hawaiian_hero; 03-15-16 at 06:06 PM.

03-15-16, 07:06 PM	#2
THEBERBSTER Growing Old Disgracefully Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Dibden Purlieu - Southampton Posts: 9,605 Downloads: 1123 Uploads: 0	A Warm Welcome To The Subsim Community > hawaiian_hero Find Help & Useful Information In My SHIV & SHV Signature Thread Links. Treat Yourself To The Wolves Of Steel Mega Mod <> SH5 The Dawn Of A New Beginning The Wolves Of Steel Frequently Asked Questions + Campaign Fix In > FAQ’s & Game Tips (Please Look Here First Before Posting A Question) A very useful tutorial that I have added to my tutorials list. Glad you decided to show how the AOB was worked out. __________________ LSH3-2015 <> TUTORIALS <> ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW <> ALL IN ONE PLACE SH4 <> TUTORIALS <> HOW TO DO IT <> INFORMATION <> DOWNLOAD LINKS SH5 <> TUTORIALS <> HOW TO DO IT <> INFORMATION <> DOWNLOAD LINKS Always Here To Help A Fellow 'Subber' \| Need An Answer to A Question Just Send Me A PM Last edited by THEBERBSTER; 03-15-16 at 07:12 PM.

03-16-16, 08:01 AM	#3
vdr1981 Navy Seal Join Date: May 2010 Location: Србија Posts: 6,078 Downloads: 581 Uploads: 13	That was a Cimaron class tanker actually but your ID mistake is compensated by small error in AoB and speed estimation... Anyway, good work and thank you! SH5 really needs stuff like this! P.S. AoB is the angle which would enemy watchmen report if he could spot your periscope. You only have to collect and enter data, TDC will do the rest... __________________ Best regards... Vecko The Wolves of Steel v2.2.25_SH5 Expansion Pack_Full The Wolves of Steel v2.2.xx to v2.2.25 - Update PDF Install Instructions How to report an issue If You wish to support my work... Last edited by vdr1981; 03-16-16 at 08:43 AM.

03-16-16, 08:50 AM	#4
palmic Grey Wolf Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: 50.1° N, 14.4° E Posts: 834 Downloads: 82 Uploads: 5	Tutorial: TDC Real Navigation-100% Realism by hawaiianhero (English) Good job, just one thing - i don't think zero gyro angle is so important as 90 degrees AoB, but if you have both it's ideal of course as many of your mistakes may be erased. Great video anyway __________________ Check my mods (Downloads tab) u-boats documentaries 1) Real navigation - target motion analysis cheatsheet 2) Real navigation - Perfectly controlled approach 3) Real navigation - How to prepare torpedo Attack with basic trigonometry Really needed: Learn RAOBF optical targetting

01-08-17, 04:24 AM	#6
marce Swabbie Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 7 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Hi guys! I played SH2 and then SH3 when it released, but took a very long hiatus after encountering so many bugs in SH4 and getting disappointed. Anyway, now I’m back catching up on LSH3, SH4-OM (so much goodness!) and of course SH5 WOS which is my current focus, because I love real navigation. I watched many tutorials on the manual TDC and this one was quite helpful, thanks! However, I still have a few questions/problems (sorry for hijacking the thread) so I hope somebody can give me some pointers: My main problem are terrible stadimeter results. I currently have map contacts turned on to check my results with the correct values and I find my range measurements to be off by a lot, especially on long distances. I know about transferring the correct mast height and everything should be set up correctly. But, for example in the manual TDC training mission the first range measurement of the tanker I take reads 8850m while it is only about 6900m away, which is quite a difference. Now my question is if this is simply the tolerance of the stadimeter readings we must deal with or if I’m doing something wrong? The second thing is that I haven’t found a manual TDC tutorial for a situation in which the sub is moving instead of stationary. I know in theory that we “only” have to offset our own movement vector, but it would be awesome if someone could point we to a tutorial/example where it is done correctly. Thirdly, I quickly threw together this calculator yesterday which takes the same data I use for my solution and calculates the values mathematically (instead of constructing them) which in theory should be more precise if I didn’t mess up my trigonometry. I plan on using it to verify my own results until I feel confident. It would be nice if someone who knows how the numbers should look like could try my contraption and tell me if I’m even calculating the right stuff in the first place. Lastly, is there a trick to take the torpedo speed into account? At the moment, I select the speed just on a gut feeling, but that can’t be right… Thanks in advance!

03-18-16, 04:43 AM	#5
hawaiian_hero Swabbie Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 9 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	Thanks for the feedback guys!

01-08-17, 05:18 AM	#7
palmic Grey Wolf Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: 50.1° N, 14.4° E Posts: 834 Downloads: 82 Uploads: 5	About your stadimeter: what display aspect ratio do you have? Do you installed some of aspect ratio mods which comes with twos? I had the same problem on my 1920x1200 display until i start to use 8:5 optional twos mod. Check twos installation documentation Sent from phone __________________ Check my mods (Downloads tab) u-boats documentaries 1) Real navigation - target motion analysis cheatsheet 2) Real navigation - Perfectly controlled approach 3) Real navigation - How to prepare torpedo Attack with basic trigonometry Really needed: Learn RAOBF optical targetting

01-08-17, 05:21 AM	#8
marce Swabbie Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 7 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Hi palmic, thanks for your response. Yes I'm on 1920x1200 and have installed the 8:5 optional mod. It is giving me better results the closer the ship comes (say only ~200m off at 2000m range), but it's never spot on.

01-08-17, 05:27 AM	#9
palmic Grey Wolf Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: 50.1° N, 14.4° E Posts: 834 Downloads: 82 Uploads: 5	Hmm.. Ok. I let the answer to vdr or someone else.. For your other questions, check links at bottom of this post Sent from phone __________________ Check my mods (Downloads tab) u-boats documentaries 1) Real navigation - target motion analysis cheatsheet 2) Real navigation - Perfectly controlled approach 3) Real navigation - How to prepare torpedo Attack with basic trigonometry Really needed: Learn RAOBF optical targetting

01-08-17, 07:00 AM	#12
palmic Grey Wolf Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: 50.1° N, 14.4° E Posts: 834 Downloads: 82 Uploads: 5	This precision is enough anyway, most kaleunen calculated solution just in head by sine with one decimal point and AOB degrees by tens. It's really enough Everything what you have to set precisely is target speed. Just try to shoot at your target as much at 90 AOB as possible Sent from phone __________________ Check my mods (Downloads tab) u-boats documentaries 1) Real navigation - target motion analysis cheatsheet 2) Real navigation - Perfectly controlled approach 3) Real navigation - How to prepare torpedo Attack with basic trigonometry Really needed: Learn RAOBF optical targetting

01-08-17, 08:20 AM	#14
palmic Grey Wolf Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: 50.1° N, 14.4° E Posts: 834 Downloads: 82 Uploads: 5	Yeah they were pretty wasting torpedoes, weren't they Sent from phone __________________ Check my mods (Downloads tab) u-boats documentaries 1) Real navigation - target motion analysis cheatsheet 2) Real navigation - Perfectly controlled approach 3) Real navigation - How to prepare torpedo Attack with basic trigonometry Really needed: Learn RAOBF optical targetting Last edited by palmic; 01-13-17 at 03:53 PM.